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Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

accc.gov.au

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Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#81

Post by fblp »

simondotau wrote: post #70

This report is somewhat bipolar. On one hand it's arguing that Google and Apple exert too much control over smartphone app marketplaces. On the other hand its proposed remedy asks that Google and Apple exert even more control over these app marketplaces by stamping down on anti-consumer practices like subscription traps and scams. On the other other hand it proposes that Apple and Google should allow third party paym…

This is an interim report. It's okay for it to be proposing multiple directions that benefit consumers and competition.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#82

Post by alfongj »

hugi wrote: post #35
diogenesjunior wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm happy to use an iPhone, knowing my personal information is safe and it reduces my chances of being Harvested by Google LOL. Instead of bowing down to one master, you chose to bow down to the other?

I choose to spend my money on devices from a company that's explicitly and repeatedly stated that their mission is privacy. But if you choose to buy phones from ad companies, it's your decision.

Please point to a single source from Apple claiming their mission is privacy.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#83

Post by edrxty »

havernator wrote: post #77
encryptluks2 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I don't understand the argument Apple users are presenting. Its like they can't comprehend that they can have an option to install third-party apps but they don't have to enable or use that if they like being "protected" from hurting themselves.

Right now, ~100% of the software available for iOS has to follow Apple's rules, offer a consistent and safe payment method, and install through the App Store. I assume you think that would change, else why have other app stores. That's what I don't want. I want as close to 100% of the software for iOS as possible to have to follow the rules. That's part of why I chose iOS.

That's nice and all, but the rest of us would like to be able to use our hardware, that we paid for up front, for whatever we need. Unfortunately iOS boots with an encrypted bootloader, so you can't replace it, and once booted, only supports this lovely walled garden of cat-meme consumption.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#84

Post by jackson1442 »

subroutine wrote: post #72
SilverRed wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people who want a bigger rev cut This is not unreasonable. Apps like netfix and spotify can not possibly pay the Apple cut and stay competitive with apples own services which pay nothing. Not a single user is going to pay 30% extra to listen to the same music.

Do netflix and spotify currently pay apple 30%?

They don’t allow you to subscribe in-app and are not allowed to show CTAs to subscribe online, just an opaque “sign in” screen.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#85

Post by Mandatum »

simondotau wrote: post #70

This report is somewhat bipolar. On one hand it's arguing that Google and Apple exert too much control over smartphone app marketplaces. On the other hand its proposed remedy asks that Google and Apple exert even more control over these app marketplaces by stamping down on anti-consumer practices like subscription traps and scams. On the other other hand it proposes that Apple and Google should allow third party paym…

Agreed. It's "the stores are extracting too much money for the services they provide and the way they run" without any concrete asks. Likely because we're in unexplored territory, I expect ACCC is using this release as a form to push other agencies to move first to see what happens.

Australia NEVER moves first on these things. They want EU or US to make a move first to see what works.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#86

Post by havernator »

edrxty wrote: post #83
havernator wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now, ~100% of the software available for iOS has to follow Apple's rules, offer a consistent and safe payment method, and install through the App Store. I assume you think that would change, else why have other app stores. That's what I don't want. I want as close to 100% of the software for iOS as possible to have to follow the rules. That's part of why I chose iOS.

That's nice and all, but the rest of us would like to be able to use our hardware, that we paid for up front, for whatever we need. Unfortunately iOS boots with an encrypted bootloader, so you can't replace it, and once booted, only supports this lovely walled garden of cat-meme consumption.

Then choose something else? I mean, lobby for the change if you like, but you're eliminating my favored choice if you succeed.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#87

Post by encryptluks2 »

hugi wrote: post #78
harry8 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They'll flip the nanosecond it suits them. Their commitment isn't valuable or enforceable or anything other than a dodgy sales pitch. Really. They can encode it in contact in a second and choose not to.

Sure, they can flip. But currently Apple's business model is based on privacy, and they're going for it HARD. Like, really hard. And I like that. The moment they stop doing that, I won't support them. Meanwhile; have you you seen Google stand up to the despicable behaviour of Facebook? No? I wonder why.

Privacy like tracking your app launches?

https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-says-itll-change-how-it-coll...

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#88

Post by hugi »

edrxty wrote: post #83
havernator wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now, ~100% of the software available for iOS has to follow Apple's rules, offer a consistent and safe payment method, and install through the App Store. I assume you think that would change, else why have other app stores. That's what I don't want. I want as close to 100% of the software for iOS as possible to have to follow the rules. That's part of why I chose iOS.

That's nice and all, but the rest of us would like to be able to use our hardware, that we paid for up front, for whatever we need. Unfortunately iOS boots with an encrypted bootloader, so you can't replace it, and once booted, only supports this lovely walled garden of cat-meme consumption.

Sounds like you don't want an iPhone. So buy a different phone that does what you want.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#89

Post by twitch-chat »

parasubvert wrote: post #76
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seek this asinine take everywhere around here. Opening these platforms doesn't kill them, it forces them to compete.

It is not asinine just because you disagree. They already are competing. There is Android, and there is iOS. Apple certainly could be hemmed in on clear areas of conflict like Spotify. Opening the platform is not traditional antitrust because consumers like it this way - it’s more about charity for the competition.

By consumers do you mean the loud but very small minority that defend Apple in comment sections of online articles?

Because if you ask me, my guess is that the average Apple consumer couldn't care less if the platform is opened up or not.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#90

Post by sfifs »

hugi wrote: post #30
encryptluks2 wrote: post #23

You can have third-party Android app stores. Can you say the same about Apple? While I agree that Google has market-dominance, they are not anti-competition or anti-consumer in the same sense as Apple. Android is open source, Chrome OS is open source, etc. Google is actually providing and contributing something back to the community. Apple intentionally locks people to specific hardware and to their app store.

Google is an ad company. I do not understand why people would choose to use an operating system created by an ad company, designed to harvest their personal information. I'm happy to use an iPhone, knowing my personal information is safe and it reduces my chances of being Harvested by Google.

If you're like the majority of people on HN, you're likely (relatively) "rich" - perhaps in top 5-10 percentile of income globally.

The other 90% use Androids. They could use "second-hand" iPhones - but those don't work quite as well and stay compatible with the latest apps whereas the latest cheap Androids do.

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