My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community • Hacker News Board

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#431

Post by klyrs » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 11:02 PM UTC

arthur_sav wrote: post #379

klyrs wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happened to free speech? If you think this is slander, don't the same rules apply; mustn't we presume the innocence of Yifan until she's proven guilty?

I think you made my point. We used to have a process to figure out what happened and make a judgement after the facts have been laid out. What we get now is emotional responses to outrageous headlines and mobs ready to crucify the accused. What a farce.

> We used to have a process to figure out what happened and make a judgement after the facts have been laid out.

When was this? In your living memory? Was that time before or after Emmet Till was murdered by a lynch mob?

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#432

Post by mirekrusin » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 11:02 PM UTC

foldr wrote: post #416

mirekrusin wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you cut the list a bit. As an thought experiment try to think that your husband/wife does those things with somebody (accepts invitation to sleep in the same airbnb, without anybody else, with single opposite sex, bringing bottle of wine) - would you be worried? And if yes, why? Is it not even remotely possible that somebody would feel weird about their partner doing it?

One thing you’re missing here is that sexual consent is an ‘in the moment’ thing. Someone might be coming over to your place fully intending to have sex with you and then change their mind. You have to respect that.

Absolutely, agree. One thing you may be missing is that description doesn't mention anything like that happening and the opportunity to mention it is right there. Why wouldn't this be mentioned if it happened?

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#433

Post by hamburglar » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 11:03 PM UTC

fabian2k wrote: post #13

The "share an AirBnB to be able to afford the conference" part seems particularly damning to me. That seems entirely premeditated and predatory.

In particular, if true, the part where he first encouraged her to invite other people and then when she expressed interest in that, accused her of trying to bring a “chaperone” sounds very much like premeditation. The initial invitation was designed to make her think it wasn’t just the two of them, but then he shamed her into acquiescing to that exact situation.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#434

Post by hdunrjdu » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 11:03 PM UTC

I have lurked here for a long time, but felt compelled to create an account to respond to comments in this thread because of how disappointed I was. This community is part of the problem.

On a human level, how can you be so concerned that there's an outside chance that the accused is completely innocent, and at the same time, ignore the fact that in all likelihood, another human was exploited and raped?

Yes, there is a criminal justice system, and yes "innocent until proven guilty" is an important part of it, but it's clearly unable to handle cases such as these. If that's not obvious, you must not be paying close enough attention.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#435

Post by zozbot234 » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 11:03 PM UTC

_f1dq wrote: post #280

There is a lot about the sexual events in this post that, to me, highlights something I feel is important which is: we parents need to get better had having conversations with our children around sex. This girl was feeling uncomfortable and crying but at the same time "didn't think those behaviors were problematic". I can't help but wonder if her parents never sat her down and discussed situations like this and, I ge…

These events are just as much about alcohol, misplaced trust in strangers, personally unsafe arrangements (sharing an AirBnb with an unfamiliar person), grossly disproportionate social influence etc. etc. as they are about "sex". In fact, even the sex the OP talks about was clearly coerced.

We should stop treating "tell folks not to have 'unacceptable' sex" as if it's a foolproof solution to all social problems. It just isn't.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#436

Post by Volundr » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 11:05 PM UTC

tester756 wrote: post #377

hamburglar wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a bunch of my ex-girlfriends coordinated a character assassination campaign against me I would probably be forced to consider that maybe I’m an asshole.

this guy seems to be popular in Scala community, maybe somebody does not like him? meanwhile you're probably just normal person

Maybe "somebody" doesn't like him and managed to convince multiple other "somebodies" who (I assume in your scenario have nothing against him?) to put themselves and their reputations on the line tell lies about him?

How did "somebody" manage to do that?

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#437

Post by chmod600 » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 11:05 PM UTC

lukasb wrote: post #180

chmod600 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The problem is that only a tiny percentage of harassers and rapists are ever convicted." How can that be known? Why do you presume that someone is a harasser or rapist if they weren't convicted?

Less than 1% of rapes lead to felony convictions: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/10/06/less-than... Same article notes that between 2-8% of rape complaints are false. Worries about false rape claims are wildly overblown.

From your source: "...based on the best of the imperfect measures available."

What are these imperfect measures? How imperfect are they?

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#438

Post by Gatsky » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 11:05 PM UTC

epicureanideal wrote: post #256

swyx wrote: post #20

similar stories are emerging: - https://killnicole.github.io/statement/ (edit i see she has added it to the article itself) - https://twitter.com/brianclapper/status/1387115214064193537?... - https://twitter.com/adelbertchang/status/1387090351626723329... there seems to be some coordination here, as this came out pretty much at the same time. https://typelevel.org/blog/2021/04/27/community-safety.html Yifan also link…

Sometimes character assassination is coordinated. I personally only slightly increase the probability of something being true when multiple accusers come forward. I still want to see proof. What if a bunch of your ex-girlfriends or ex-boyfriends got together and decided to ruin your life with accusations?

Is this theoretical or do you have an example of a case where a woman publicly made detailed accusations which turned out to be false?

Edit: This is an honest question by the way. Thanks to those who did provide some examples.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#439

Post by krapp » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 11:05 PM UTC

analognoise wrote: post #419

faitswulff wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 but especially our boys. Girls and women already learn so much about how to avoid being harmed by men. It’s time for our boys to learn how to become kind men - and for those of us who are men to model that for them.

Doesn't this remove agency from women? If two adults get together, fly together, get a room together, drink wine together, have relations... Then we're supposed to say that consent can't be given because the woman is drunk. But they're both drunk. Isn't it essentially the patriarchy to say that a woman can't make that choice? Like if they're equals and they're both drunk, why do we blame the men? Because they aren't…

No, why on earth would it?

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#440

Post by talaketu » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 11:06 PM UTC

js2 wrote: post #113

Yes, of course she should have contacted law enforcement, but she was in a foreign country, intimated and young. And law enforcement still fails women: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/how-po... In an ideal world, the criminal justice system works. In the real world, it's a patchwork system that sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2019/09/17...…

She should have agency to have her complaint heard, not an obligation to deal with police. Aside, she has claimed that he took advantage of her and that he harassed her - not that he assaulted her.