My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community • Hacker News Board

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#251

Post by dmit » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 10:12 PM UTC

eloff wrote: post #216

claudiawerner wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't want to victim blame here because this guy sounds like a grade A creep and predator. But does a person not have some responsibility here to not get so intoxicated when alone with a member of the opposite sex in a private space? No. The idea that being around a member of the opposite sex (and does this apply to members of the same sex? e.g. men raping men, and women raping women?) in a private space while bei…

> No. The idea that being around a member of the opposite sex (and does this apply to members of the same sex? e.g. men raping men, and women raping women?) I specifically used the word person because I think this could happen between any two people of any sex. I'm certain it even happens to men, by women. Just men are much less likely to regret it the next day. > levies some kind of 'responsibility' to be on the loo…

> If you gave consent because you were drunk, that's not really rape, it could be poor judgment.

No, it's lack of judgement. Total inability to judge, in fact.

> The perpetrator might reasonably think you're sober enough to make your own decisions. Especially if they are also inebriated.

It doesn't matter what the perpetrator thinks. And especially? Is the perpetrator less guilty of rape depending on his blood alcohol level?

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#252

Post by pc86 » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 10:12 PM UTC

solosoyokaze wrote: post #179

epicureanideal wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not trying to sue someone for slander doesn't actually say anything. There's a lot of factors. How much will it cost? How much publicity will it generate and is that worse than just letting it go? What is the standard of proof that must be met and are they confident they can prove that it's a false statement? What are the consequences if they somehow fail to meet that burden? Etc. Also, how did the left become the pa…

So are you saying that victims must win a court case to have their story believed but perpetrators should be taken at their word? If someone wants to clear their name, go to court and sue for slander. If it's two people's word against each other, I'll believe the victim every time since there's such a high cost of coming forward and slander laws exist. EDIT Since I'm now throttled... I'm saying that coming forward ei…

> So are you saying that victims must win a court case to have their story believed but perpetrators should be taken at their word?

Not the person to whom you're replying, but the presumption of innocence means this exactly. If you are accused of a crime, you are presumed innocent until it can be proven you're not.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#253

Post by mirekrusin » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 10:13 PM UTC

mirekrusin wrote: post #190

_qwfv wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> some people will pause before judging definite rape for described situation where girl accepts invitation to sleep in the same airbnb, without anybody else, with single guy, bringing bottle of wine, None of those things even remotely imply consent for a sexual advance. Those are all things that should be fine for anyone of any gender to do together without there being fear of a sexual assault. Anyone who looks at t…

My point is that she doesn't mention she didn't want it, said "no" or anything that implies not giving consent.

> There was another time that he insisted on having intercourse regardless of me saying I didn’t want to.

Insisting doesn't mean doing it, does it?

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#254

Post by rayiner » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 10:13 PM UTC

> As an inexperienced young woman from a patriarchal culture, I was running away from the stereotype of being thought of as someone “traditional”. I should, like he implied, and wanted to be “cool about everything that happened”.

“Just be cool” is such an abusive and manipulative behavior I’m flummoxed at how it’s lasted this long as socially acceptable.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#255

Post by cbmuser » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 10:13 PM UTC

_qwfv wrote: post #58

kingsuper20 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>no, a lynching is a murder by a racist mob no, a lynching is an extra-legal murder by a mob.

In the US, lynching has extremely strong implications of racist violence. It's not strictly the definition of the word, but most folks in the states will understand a lynching to imply race related murders.

> In the US, lynching has extremely strong implications of racist violence.

Please don’t assume everyone is a US citizen.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#256

Post by epicureanideal » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 10:13 PM UTC

swyx wrote: post #20

similar stories are emerging: - https://killnicole.github.io/statement/ (edit i see she has added it to the article itself) - https://twitter.com/brianclapper/status/1387115214064193537?... - https://twitter.com/adelbertchang/status/1387090351626723329... there seems to be some coordination here, as this came out pretty much at the same time. https://typelevel.org/blog/2021/04/27/community-safety.html Yifan also link…

Sometimes character assassination is coordinated.

I personally only slightly increase the probability of something being true when multiple accusers come forward. I still want to see proof.

What if a bunch of your ex-girlfriends or ex-boyfriends got together and decided to ruin your life with accusations?

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#257

Post by eloff » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 10:13 PM UTC

faitswulff wrote: post #48

eloff wrote: post #36

> I don’t remember how much I drank. I don’t remember him drinking. But I remember feeling uncomfortable when he made advances on me. I felt being taken advantage of that he had unprotected sex with me when I was intoxicated. Nothing felt right. I remember panicking and crying. I don't want to victim blame here because this guy sounds like a grade A creep and predator. But does a person not have some responsibility h…

Yes, you are victim blaming. Men aren’t wild bears, they’re human beings who should be held accountable for their actions. How drunk someone is around another human being has nothing to do with the perpetrator’s culpability.

> Yes, you are victim blaming. Men aren’t wild bears.

They're also not harmless. And I chose the word person for a reason - this could happen between a straight man and a gay man, or a woman could take advantage of a drunk man (although he's not likely to regret it, unless maybe he's married or something - or she gets pregnant)

The thing is I think you have some responsibility for your own decisions, drunk or not.

I don't think it's right to take advantage of someone who's drunk - but it's tough to prove that after the fact and many a young man has had their lives ruined by a woman who they thought consented and then later accused them of rape.

On the other hand I can really empathize with the woman's POV here, and think that it's terrible that there are men out there who take advantage of them when they're under the influence - and I'm sure that's more common.

This just doesn't seem cut and dried.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#258

Post by noobermin » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 10:13 PM UTC

rlmenu wrote: post #232

Lots of comments obviously focus on the issue whether this is truth or slander. There is another angle to this: A word of advice for new people in OSS. You do not need to go to conferences to be successful in the field. Many of the developers who actually write code do not attend conferences . On the other hand, people who want to associate themselves with the work of others, narcissists, activists of all kinds, para…

Painfully true but kind of unfortunate as young professionals are often pushed into going to conferences as a way to get ahead in their career.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#259

Post by DonHopkins » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 10:13 PM UTC

throway98752343 wrote: post #234

nicklecompte wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine a letter like this targeted at you one day, except unlike Mr. Pretty, you are innocent. “Imagine that you were convicted of murder but, unlike John Wayne Gacy, you were innocent.” Seriously what is the point of comments like this? False convictions are real and very very bad, but I know very few social justice advocates who are opposed to locking up serial killers. Likewise, the existence of unscrupulous pe…

I'd never heard of that guy, so to save others the trouble, in 1980 he was found "guilty of 33 charges of murder; he was also found guilty of sexual assault and taking indecent liberties with a child" and was executed by the USA in 1994.

All true, but you forgot the money shot:

“A clown can get away with murder.” —John Wayne Gacy

John Wayne Gacy, often called the "Killer Clown," was one of the worst serial killers in U.S. history, raping and murdering at least 33 young male victims.

https://www.biography.com/crime-figure/john-wayne-gacy

John Waters hangs one of John Wayne Gacy's infamous clown paintings on the wall of his guest room, so his guests never stay too long.

Politically Incorrect with John Waters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7zFp7CaJqE&ab_channel=lurie...

Chilling paintings by ‘killer clown’ John Wayne Gacy expected to sell for £7,000 each

https://metro.co.uk/2017/10/09/chilling-paintings-by-killer-...

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#260

Post by matz1 » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 10:13 PM UTC

solosoyokaze wrote: post #125

suifbwish wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the modern day equivalent of being accused of witchcraft. You get a trial but good luck getting your reputation back. People are trained not to doubt this sort of thing end assume guilt, then when confronted they rattle off some supposed statistical fact that it’s virtually impossible for the accuser to be lying.

Except there's no such thing as witchcraft but sexual harassment is very real. Victims have every right to speak up. Libel and slander laws are also real. If someone is actually making a false accusation, there's already legal ways to deal with it.

>there's already legal ways to deal with it

suing can cost money, time, effort, and may not able to necessarily clear your name even if you won.