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Tesla Q1 2021 Results

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Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#531

Post by CyberDildonics »

arcticbull wrote: post #517
CyberDildonics wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it's pretty distasteful however to take advantage of the crypto community he claims to champion. That's not what I replied to. You said it was a pump and dump and blatant illegal market manipulation. > Your claim he's not actively working them into a froth is certainly at best a generous take. [1] This is a lie and another hallucination since I never said anything even remotely close to this. You said it wa…

> That's not what I replied to. You said it was a pump and dump and blatant illegal market manipulation. I literally quoted my self when I said it would be illegal in a different asset. And yeah, of course he’s manipulating the price, I even showed a study where they evaluated such. And yes in my opinion he’s pumping the price so he can exit higher. > This is a lie and another hallucination since I never said anythin…

> Pretty sure this isn’t within the spirit of site rules.

Then don't do it.

I guess this is the 'attack how you say it stage'.

You said "Your claim he's not actively working them into a froth is certainly at best a generous take. "

Show me where I said that.

You said a tweet saying they would accept bitcoin is 'blatant illegal market manipulation' and a 'pump and dump'. All I did was quote your own source to show that there are no laws being broken. Someone saying they accept a currency is not illegal no matter what happens to the price or how much it upsets you.

Quoting your own words and pointing out that you are for some reason fabricating arguments is the opposite of being uncivil. Don't make false hyperbolic statements out of frustration if you don't like having to back them up.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#532

Post by grey-area »

DarmokJalad1701 wrote: post #504
grey-area wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The $750 billion valuation (approaching the combined value of other car companies) is precisely why I said that it was flat compared to the valuation growth , the valuation has grown about 1300% in the last few years. Also the vast majority of those profits are not car sales but regulatory credits and Bitcoin sales, they are barely in profit on selling cars, which makes the valuation even more absurdly optimistic. IM…

> they are barely in profit on selling cars Did you even see the earnings report yesterday? I don't care about non-cash expenses (Stock-based compensation of 614M). They made a profit of $1.05 billion out of which ~102M was from the bitcoin sale and 518M was from reg credits. In what world is ~$430 million in a single quarter "barely anything"?

Greater than 60% of their profit is still from one-offs which are likely to go away soon (or even become liabilities like the bitcoin), their PE ratio is > 1000, and they have only just turned the corner and started profiting from car sales; in previous years they made a loss, which is fine in a growing company, but they are not some super-profitable company which justifies their valuation - their valuation is a projection of future growth, and I don't think it's unreasonable to say their valuation is very optimistic given their sales and position in the market.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#533

Post by rconti »

mulmen wrote: post #135
rconti wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. Since they specifically mention sedans, likely it's limited to 4 door 3 series, C class, A4 type cars, wagons/coupes/convertibles need not apply.

Yeah the A4 and A5 seem comparable but Tesla only mentions the A6, a larger sedan like the 5 Series or E Class. I'd like to see the detailed numbers on this. Also, the 3 Series wagon seems like it would be included in these numbers?

If I were Tesla, I would absolutely exclude wagons, because it makes my numbers look worse, and IMO it's legitimate because it's a different body style (I'm a wagon lover, but I own a Model 3).

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#534

Post by natch »

deanak wrote: post #519
natch wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn’t take away the fact that the physical controls are there for the using. As well as automatic and voice controls. As with any car, if the driver chooses to look away from the road for any reason, they have to be responsible about it, and they did have other options here.

As I said in another reply, Tesla is the only company advertising automated driving and other features that don't work in edge cases which is bad news for staying alive, even if you aren't the person driving a Tesla. They are also actively removing standard physical controls that have been around for decades, and through design, they are training people to rely on a touchscreen device that is not consistent or reliab…

> training people to rely on a touchscreen device that is not consistent or reliable.

This is a common misconception, easily avoided by getting some firsthand experience owning a Tesla.

We literally do not use the touchscreen for driving. And for that matter, almost not at all while driving.

As with any tool there will be those who misuse it and put others at risk. I look forward to hearing you give even a single example where a human driver was not to blame. And, preemptively so you won’t waste your own time, I don’t mean citing links where if you dig in you find that the link does not support your case.

It’s true that over time people will learn to rely on controls less and less. The world has been through similar transitions with horse and buggy -> car for example. There will be accidents along the way but the end result will be a world with far fewer accidents.

Its possible there is a better way to get to that world, but I haven’t thought of one. Perfect systems do not just spring up out of nowhere.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#535

Post by natch »

deanak wrote: post #516
natch wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teslas have a physical button that controls the wipers when needed. They also can run automatically. Finally they also can be operated via the touch screen, but I never use this last option. You seem to think it’s the only option, but that’s not the case.

In every safety system, there is a point where human intervention can override automated activity. In almost every car these systems have standard tactile controls so you can override through muscle memory in an emergency without taking your eyes off the road. (If you haven't noticed, even the icons used on stalks and buttons are standardized across the industry as a matter of safety). In a Tesla, overriding the auto…

They are adding features all the time through software updates. I hope it is never feature complete, because I enjoy getting these updates!

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#536

Post by netrus »

paxys wrote: post #157
FireBeyond wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tesla isn't some start up that just IPO'd, it's one of the world's largest companies. Based on what? Employees? 70K is not even on the chart. (Top 10? 500K+) Revenue? $31.5B is also not even on the chart. (Top 50? $130B+) Profit? $800M, again, not even on the chart. (Top 10? $24B). Market cap? This is the only area where Tesla broaches the top ten, and it has nothing to do with being a "large" company.

The one factor that you conveniently dismiss (market cap) is usually what people look at when talking about company size.

I don't think anyone would call Berkshire Hathaway a large company - or be surprised if it doubles it's revenue in 3 years. I think Teslas stock is somewhere in the space between VW and Berkshire Hathaway, the value is already accounting for a future, much larger company. Similar to some recent IPOs, like Coinbase.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#537

Post by mulmen »

rconti wrote: post #533
mulmen wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah the A4 and A5 seem comparable but Tesla only mentions the A6, a larger sedan like the 5 Series or E Class. I'd like to see the detailed numbers on this. Also, the 3 Series wagon seems like it would be included in these numbers?

If I were Tesla, I would absolutely exclude wagons, because it makes my numbers look worse, and IMO it's legitimate because it's a different body style (I'm a wagon lover, but I own a Model 3).

I can understand them excluding wagons if they did. The issue is I don't know what these numbers actually represent so it's hard to draw any conclusions. Is there somewhere with more detail on what numbers they actually used for the "Global premium vehicle sales" graph on page 8?

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#538

Post by marvin »

yarcob wrote: post #304
watt wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you sold 1 car yesterday, and sell 2 today, you have doubled your sales. It's misleading to talk about growth in terms of percentage points (or doubling/tripling, etc), if it's somewhat low numbers.

VW has just started selling their first "real" electric cars based on their all new platform. If that platform works out then Tesla is going to compete not against one or two new models, but they'll suddenly compete against two dozen models. Unless VW fucks something up in the next year, I just don't know how Tesla expects to compete with them. Tesla only has a handful of high end cars; they have no family cars, no v…

They won’t be able to compete on price, because they’ll be bidding for batteries on the open market along with everybody else. Takes another 5 years to build out capacity, and who knows what Tesla will have accomplished by then.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#539

Post by natch »

deanak wrote: post #516
natch wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teslas have a physical button that controls the wipers when needed. They also can run automatically. Finally they also can be operated via the touch screen, but I never use this last option. You seem to think it’s the only option, but that’s not the case.

In every safety system, there is a point where human intervention can override automated activity. In almost every car these systems have standard tactile controls so you can override through muscle memory in an emergency without taking your eyes off the road. (If you haven't noticed, even the icons used on stalks and buttons are standardized across the industry as a matter of safety). In a Tesla, overriding the auto…

> available through an interaction with the touch screen

Not exactly. It’s on the stalk as a physical button.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#540

Post by RC_ITR »

reducesuffering wrote: post #153
RC_ITR wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the true “spin” is that you think the E Class and 3 Series are way more important than they are because they USED to be important. That’s the cache Tesla is using. The Germans will admit the SUV are the US market (look at their lineup) and the day that the Y outsells GL class cars, then I’ll eat humble pie. For Context: The SUV class of the same relative size sells about 3x the sedan. https://www.businesswire…

> the day that the Y outsells GL class cars, then I’ll eat humble pie. Do you really have doubt this day isn't coming very soon? 2023 tops. Mercedes SUV are niche luxury. Tesla will only shed away price on the Y's due to declining battery prices, improved manufacturing with gigafactories, and their mission of reducing emissions by getting everyone into EV's.

I have extreme doubts in the trajectory of the Model Y.

Tesla bundles its sales with the Model 3 (bad sign) & 3rd party data suggests they sold 3k in Q4:20 with negative trending.

I agree EVs are the future, I think Tesla was a major innovator in the space, but has stagnated recently and the blind faith in Musk / Tesla is ultimately bad for the cutover

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