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Tesla Q1 2021 Results

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Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#91

Post by feifan »

jgalt212 wrote: post #83
1970-01-01 wrote: post #24

Why is solar deployment measured in MW and not # of installs? It doesn't seem like the best metric for measuring growth.

more importantly, why is it in any economic to install solar cells on a home instead of at scale on a solar farm?

Same reason you have heating units in your house/building rather than at a municipal heating plant … people want to buy self-sufficiency for their house/building, and it's easier than scoping/building large-scale projects and running wires and dealing with municipalities.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#92

Post by Drunk_Engineer »

azinman2 wrote: post #64
dangus wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The inflated stock price is easy to explain: intangibles are part of the balance sheet. In my guesstimation, Tesla will be making electric cars with a range to dollar ratio that can’t possibly be matched by incumbents for the foreseeable future. VW and the rest are more capable of producing a refined car, but (again, my opinion) Tesla’s EV advantage is similar to the big three’s various inertial advantages that they…

So I just bought an ID.4 this weekend after seeing on HN on Friday that it launched in the US. I also test drove a Tesla Y just to double check Saturday morning before doing so. Tesla Y is for sure faster and the better drive. It's also like 10-15k more expensive and that's not even before VW's rebates. The interior was weird -- tiny headrests, tiny mirrors, and really poor back visibility. A giant screen in middle a…

As a former Audi owner, I would never ever buy anything from VW (certainly not after the dieselgate scandal). But good luck with your $45k purchase!

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#93

Post by rconti »

11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #2

"Model 3 was the best-selling premium sedan in the world, outselling long-time industry leaders such as the 3 Series and E Class. This demonstrates that an electric vehicle can be a category leader and outsell its gas-powered counterparts." I find this to be a major milestone in the transition to BEV. This is an achievement.

The E-class is an entirely different class from the Model 3 and 3 series. Maybe just a C-class typo.

Pretty impressive, especially considering that the 3 series is a similar age (both ~2018). The C class is getting long in the tooth, though, dates to 2016.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#94

Post by rconti »

asien wrote: post #21
11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #2

"Model 3 was the best-selling premium sedan in the world, outselling long-time industry leaders such as the 3 Series and E Class. This demonstrates that an electric vehicle can be a category leader and outsell its gas-powered counterparts." I find this to be a major milestone in the transition to BEV. This is an achievement.

> I find this to be a major milestone in the transition to BEV. This is an achievement. While I agree it would be great if we had 0 emission vehicles, today EV in US or Germany run largely of coal , hence battery production is anything but green... Thus I still don’t see the point of what’s called « Transition ». Climate change is real , but at the moment without nuclear fusion I fail to see how this is going to chan…

That's just not true.

Also, we can't have both "electric cars are only for rich coastal elites" and "... but the power they're run on is the dirtiest power available in coal country"

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#95

Post by mensetmanusman »

t0mas88 wrote: post #61
DeRock wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Premium is defined by price, not your desired feature set.

I think most people define premium by the build quality, interior design, options etc. But if you want to only define it by price, then the model 3 is definitely not in the premium segment. It's a very cheap car... So much so that I know a few people that literally joke at a white model 3 company lease as "your consulting job must suck"

The rich get after market effects.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#96

Post by FireBeyond »

Kranar wrote: post #57
halotrope wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stand corrected. Thank you! Still not exactly mega-growth. Especially compared to the share price.

Revenue doubling over 3 years isn't mega growth? Tesla isn't some start up that just IPO'd, it's one of the world's largest companies. Very few companies manage to double revenue in 3 years. So you might next claim that revenue only doubled but stock price 10x'd over that time period. Well the reason is pretty simple, an investor who buys Tesla before its revenue grows will enjoy a better return on their investment c…

> Tesla isn't some start up that just IPO'd, it's one of the world's largest companies.

Based on what?

Employees? 70K is not even on the chart. (Top 10? 500K+)

Revenue? $31.5B is also not even on the chart. (Top 50? $130B+)

Profit? $800M, again, not even on the chart. (Top 10? $24B).

Market cap? This is the only area where Tesla broaches the top ten, and it has nothing to do with being a "large" company.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#97

Post by ajross »

jocker12 wrote: post #33
11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #2

"Model 3 was the best-selling premium sedan in the world, outselling long-time industry leaders such as the 3 Series and E Class. This demonstrates that an electric vehicle can be a category leader and outsell its gas-powered counterparts." I find this to be a major milestone in the transition to BEV. This is an achievement.

This is a very tricky presentation of the larger image. The document mentions the "Premium Sedan" category market, not the entire market. So looking at the Premium Sedan market share in the US (which is arguably the most important market in the world) the numbers show a 1% decline in sales for 2020 - "The midsized car segment continues to lose share in the US car market in 2020. Sales were down 22% in an overall mark…

It seems that in trying to debunk marketing spin you've deployed even worse spin of your own:

> the premium sedan category (including Tesla 3) is declining overall

Uh... wat? Model 3 sales are growing very rapidly! Trying to argue that they aren't because the category they are being compared to is not is... somewhat weird.

I mean, look. The M3 is now selling more cars than Mercedes or BMW do in the same price segment. That's... pretty impressive, isn't it? I don't think that's spin, the E Class and 3 Series are very successful cars. They seem like a pretty good benchmark.

But yes: it's true that people bought fewer of them during the pandemic. It's also not very surprising, nor very informative about Tesla, who sold far more cars in 2020 than 2019.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#98

Post by xxpor »

t0mas88 wrote: post #61
DeRock wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Premium is defined by price, not your desired feature set.

I think most people define premium by the build quality, interior design, options etc. But if you want to only define it by price, then the model 3 is definitely not in the premium segment. It's a very cheap car... So much so that I know a few people that literally joke at a white model 3 company lease as "your consulting job must suck"

So you're defining premium cars by the things that everyone hates about those cars, other than build quality.

The German car companies will nickle and dime you to death with options, they have terrible interiors/user interfaces, etc. Granted I wish the model 3 had cooled seats but meh.

Even a model S doesn't count with that logic.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#99

Post by mensetmanusman »

api wrote: post #86
11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #2

"Model 3 was the best-selling premium sedan in the world, outselling long-time industry leaders such as the 3 Series and E Class. This demonstrates that an electric vehicle can be a category leader and outsell its gas-powered counterparts." I find this to be a major milestone in the transition to BEV. This is an achievement.

Even if Tesla eventually failed, this is an achievement. They've fully validated the EV market. I highly doubt that we'd be seeing accelerating EV adoption like this without Tesla.

Too many countries are banning ICE sales in the next decade. So they have at least a decade of life left.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#100

Post by mlyle »

linsomniac wrote: post #82
jocker12 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Selling more of the less selling cars is not an achievement by any means. All the other companies are changing production towards different other categories, but the “achievement” Tesla wants their shareholders to be happy about is that they sell more of the cars less and less people are buying. If you sell more horses worldwide out of the “four legged category” it has no relevance as long as less and less people are…

I'm not sure one years data point makes for a trend. Especially not 2020. I have no data to back it up, but it seems likely that the people who can afford a luxury car are also the people that could afford to stay home during the pandemic. Personally, I'm finding it hard to justify a new car when I'm 6 months overdue for an oil change and not even at half the miles. :-)

He's speaking of the movement from luxury sedans to luxury SUVs and crossovers.
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