Tesla Q1 2021 Results • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#151

Post by nick_kline » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 2:06 AM UTC

ERD0L wrote: post #23

11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #2

"Model 3 was the best-selling premium sedan in the world, outselling long-time industry leaders such as the 3 Series and E Class. This demonstrates that an electric vehicle can be a category leader and outsell its gas-powered counterparts." I find this to be a major milestone in the transition to BEV. This is an achievement.

Model 3 is a premium sedan ? Oh :/ Where are my paint color options, ventilated seats ? What about parts for my local car shop ? Did they forgot the safety features unique to german cars ?

There are few repairs needed so parts don't matter ;-) More seriously I do hope that there can be third party access to shop manuals and repairs though.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#152

Post by austhrow743 » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 2:07 AM UTC

jocker12 wrote: post #104

ajross wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that in trying to debunk marketing spin you've deployed even worse spin of your own: > the premium sedan category (including Tesla 3) is declining overall Uh... wat? Model 3 sales are growing very rapidly! Trying to argue that they aren't because the category they are being compared to is not is... somewhat weird. I mean, look. The M3 is now selling more cars than Mercedes or BMW do in the same price segment…

"is... somewhat weird." No, it's not. If you sell more horses worldwide out of the “four legged category” it has no relevance as long as less and less people are buying horses for transportation.

Greatly increasing the number of horses you sold in a time when people are buying less horses overall is a better achievement than doing so when total horse purchases increased, not a worse achievement.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#153

Post by reducesuffering » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 2:09 AM UTC

RC_ITR wrote: post #143

ajross wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that in trying to debunk marketing spin you've deployed even worse spin of your own: > the premium sedan category (including Tesla 3) is declining overall Uh... wat? Model 3 sales are growing very rapidly! Trying to argue that they aren't because the category they are being compared to is not is... somewhat weird. I mean, look. The M3 is now selling more cars than Mercedes or BMW do in the same price segment…

I think the true “spin” is that you think the E Class and 3 Series are way more important than they are because they USED to be important. That’s the cache Tesla is using. The Germans will admit the SUV are the US market (look at their lineup) and the day that the Y outsells GL class cars, then I’ll eat humble pie. For Context: The SUV class of the same relative size sells about 3x the sedan. https://www.businesswire…

> the day that the Y outsells GL class cars, then I’ll eat humble pie.

Do you really have doubt this day isn't coming very soon? 2023 tops. Mercedes SUV are niche luxury. Tesla will only shed away price on the Y's due to declining battery prices, improved manufacturing with gigafactories, and their mission of reducing emissions by getting everyone into EV's.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#154

Post by nick_kline » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 2:12 AM UTC

maxerickson wrote: post #134

dangus wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The inflated stock price is easy to explain: intangibles are part of the balance sheet. In my guesstimation, Tesla will be making electric cars with a range to dollar ratio that can’t possibly be matched by incumbents for the foreseeable future. VW and the rest are more capable of producing a refined car, but (again, my opinion) Tesla’s EV advantage is similar to the big three’s various inertial advantages that they…

Tesla has ~2,000 charging stations (with 20,000 chargers). The stations seems to cost a few hundred thousand dollars. So they have a lead, but it's roughly a billion dollars (or maybe 2) to build out something similar, that isn't going to take decades. There are tens of thousands of places that might install a couple high power chargers (restaurants and similar). Doesn't take that many of them to add a lot of capacit…

It's not impossible, it just takes planning and multiple technical steps. Until the last 6 months, no other cars had plug in and charge (with your car telling the charger the credit card number and/or car id)! You had to sign in to an app or scan your card on the charger itself.

Telsa also is the only car manu. was access to enough batteries to ship car in en masse. All the the companies making evs are significantly limited by batteries. Finally teslas have much better energy efficiency/mile. 800v charging and car systems is one area tesla is behind (they are 400v).

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#155

Post by CyberDildonics » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 2:14 AM UTC

anonymouse008 wrote: post #147

CyberDildonics wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read your own link? It about "pump and dump" schemes and explains that they are fundamentally about false positive statements. "Generally, securities fraud occurs when someone makes a false or misleading positive statement about a company or the value of its stock, inducing others to make a financial decision based on that false statement."

This is Musk's exact defense - he very cleverly says nothing concretely positive about anything, and very specifically puts it in a public forum with Twitter. It's quite brilliant, although maddening to folks with less of a stomach... which is why he's in the position he's in - he makes those grey-area decisions. Where all of them add up in the future, only time will tell - but for now, results are squarely in his fa…

Cryptocurrency is not a stock and lots of people make predictions and bold statements about other things like gold and silver.

Nothing here would be significant if the other side of the equation wasn't people soaking up the slightest drip of nonsense and turning it into a frenzy of something they don't understand.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#156

Post by mcot2 » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 2:23 AM UTC

maxerickson wrote: post #134

dangus wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The inflated stock price is easy to explain: intangibles are part of the balance sheet. In my guesstimation, Tesla will be making electric cars with a range to dollar ratio that can’t possibly be matched by incumbents for the foreseeable future. VW and the rest are more capable of producing a refined car, but (again, my opinion) Tesla’s EV advantage is similar to the big three’s various inertial advantages that they…

Tesla has ~2,000 charging stations (with 20,000 chargers). The stations seems to cost a few hundred thousand dollars. So they have a lead, but it's roughly a billion dollars (or maybe 2) to build out something similar, that isn't going to take decades. There are tens of thousands of places that might install a couple high power chargers (restaurants and similar). Doesn't take that many of them to add a lot of capacit…

I follow the development of the stations pretty closely. It is much much much harder than you think it is. Some stations take well over a year from permitting to lighting them up. Tesla has also made deals with a lot of businesses and states to put them on highway rest stops. The other charging stations are spotty at best. I live one mile from the Electrify America HQ. Even the station at their HQ is iffy and I had issues with payments on it.

Also Tesla has two full production lines for the station gear. One in Shanghai and one in Buffalo NY. Electrify America is a hodgepodge of 4 different suppliers gear.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#157

Post by paxys » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 2:27 AM UTC

FireBeyond wrote: post #96

Kranar wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Revenue doubling over 3 years isn't mega growth? Tesla isn't some start up that just IPO'd, it's one of the world's largest companies. Very few companies manage to double revenue in 3 years. So you might next claim that revenue only doubled but stock price 10x'd over that time period. Well the reason is pretty simple, an investor who buys Tesla before its revenue grows will enjoy a better return on their investment c…

> Tesla isn't some start up that just IPO'd, it's one of the world's largest companies. Based on what? Employees? 70K is not even on the chart. (Top 10? 500K+) Revenue? $31.5B is also not even on the chart. (Top 50? $130B+) Profit? $800M, again, not even on the chart. (Top 10? $24B). Market cap? This is the only area where Tesla broaches the top ten, and it has nothing to do with being a "large" company.

The one factor that you conveniently dismiss (market cap) is usually what people look at when talking about company size.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#158

Post by missedthecue » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 2:28 AM UTC

brianwawok wrote: post #28

ERD0L wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Model 3 is a premium sedan ? Oh :/ Where are my paint color options, ventilated seats ? What about parts for my local car shop ? Did they forgot the safety features unique to german cars ?

Now compare 0-60 and infotainment systems. Is premium how fast the car goes, or how many paint colors it comes in? Different people have different requirements. You are likely paying over 100k to get a car as fast as a model 3.

Premium sedan, not sports car. E classes do not and have never competed on 0-60 times

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#159

Post by stephencanon » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 2:29 AM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #135

rconti wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. Since they specifically mention sedans, likely it's limited to 4 door 3 series, C class, A4 type cars, wagons/coupes/convertibles need not apply.

Yeah the A4 and A5 seem comparable but Tesla only mentions the A6, a larger sedan like the 5 Series or E Class. I'd like to see the detailed numbers on this. Also, the 3 Series wagon seems like it would be included in these numbers?

3 series wagon is no longer sold in the US, sadly.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#160

Post by maxerickson » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 2:33 AM UTC

nick_kline wrote: post #154

maxerickson wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla has ~2,000 charging stations (with 20,000 chargers). The stations seems to cost a few hundred thousand dollars. So they have a lead, but it's roughly a billion dollars (or maybe 2) to build out something similar, that isn't going to take decades. There are tens of thousands of places that might install a couple high power chargers (restaurants and similar). Doesn't take that many of them to add a lot of capacit…

It's not impossible, it just takes planning and multiple technical steps. Until the last 6 months, no other cars had plug in and charge (with your car telling the charger the credit card number and/or car id)! You had to sign in to an app or scan your card on the charger itself. Telsa also is the only car manu. was access to enough batteries to ship car in en masse. All the the companies making evs are significantly…

That other vehicles are getting plug and charge is a sign of the lead eroding. They only have to figure it out the one time.

I would expect battery production capacity to be somewhat lumpy (with big shifts when new mines or factories open). That can take a long time and I haven't looked at where things are, but it also means that there can be a very sudden shift.