Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands • Hacker News Board

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#291

Post by judge2020 » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 1:47 AM UTC

malka wrote: post #53

fra wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not quite ready to take out the pitchforks... > Roku says Google has threatened to require Roku to use certain chip sets or memory cards that would force Roku to increase the price of its hardware product, which competes directly with Google's Chromecast. This could simply mean Google is requiring chips with hardware VP9 support > Roku alleges Google has asked it to favor YouTube music results from voice commands…

> This is both what many users would expect If I'm watching a video on youtube and ask to play music, no I do NOT want at all youtube to handle that. Youtube music is crap. Google has proven many times that they are totally unable to manage music. They should stop to try, because it is utterly embarrassing.

I think the message is, if a user clicks the mic button in the YouTube app, does it end up to the YouTube search or the system-wide Roku search? I'm sure Roku is exaggerating by specifically calling it a grab for music listener marketshare.

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#292

Post by judge2020 » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 1:50 AM UTC

agilob wrote: post #75

fra wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not quite ready to take out the pitchforks... > Roku says Google has threatened to require Roku to use certain chip sets or memory cards that would force Roku to increase the price of its hardware product, which competes directly with Google's Chromecast. This could simply mean Google is requiring chips with hardware VP9 support > Roku alleges Google has asked it to favor YouTube music results from voice commands…

>This is both what many users would expect So if your default search engine in firefox is duckduckgo, but you're currently on google.com/maps reading reviews of a car service, firefox should use google for your next search request?

it's more like asking "if I press ctrl+L in google.com/maps, should it focus the browser's search or the app's search" - in which applications currently can override ctrl+L to focus their own search bar.

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#293

Post by judge2020 » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 1:54 AM UTC

minhazm wrote: post #234

bogwog wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're willfully ignorant of the situation, then sure. Otherwise, using leverage to favor your own product over competitors despite user preference is textbook anti-competitive behavior, almost comically so: Not only does it unfairly disadvantage competitors, but it also robs consumers of choice (by ignoring their preferences). I would love to see one of the meetings that lead to absurdly unethical and borderline/…

It's like Microsoft sponsoring the NFL and so they have to use Surface tablets. That means they don't have Apple, Samsung, Lenovo, and other competitors tablets. Is that anti-competitive? If so, then every business out there must be anti-competitive. Buying ads to get yourself on a higher position in search results, buying ads on TV during primetime slots, and any behavior that makes you look better than your competi…

It's anti-competitive, but maybe not illegal. It's certainly a bad UX though: https://youtu.be/djB2xgALGfI

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#294

Post by judge2020 » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 1:57 AM UTC

jpollock wrote: post #126

Roku wants to be an app store, and it wants a cut of both the subscription fee and the ad inventory: "Roku's standard terms for partner channels include 20% of subscription fees and 30% of ad inventory" For services that bundle other people's content that's likely to be a problem (see Spotify and Apple). https://popculture.com/streaming/news/roku-founder-reveals-w...

Just as 'everybody wants to rule the world', every company wants to be FAANG so they'll attack FAANG until they're on top.

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#295

Post by chrismcb » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 1:57 AM UTC

judge2020 wrote: post #289

npsimons wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reason I picked and stay with Roku is that they aren't married to a single Big Tech co. Same. I'm so sick of being locked into one system or another, having my eyeballs monetized, or getting the shitty version of an app because it isn't the vendor's platform. I got a Roku because they're as neutral as one can get, and so far I'm happy paying for YouTube Premium, Amazon Prime and Netflix. You tell me I can't run…

> You tell me I can't run those on my Roku, well fuck you and your service. The thing is that Google shouldn't be forced to make their apps for the 30 different streaming box app stores if they don't want to. If there's no money to be made and they inherently lose money by tasking a team to keep the Roku app (or LG app or Samsung app, etc) up-to-date then they shouldn't have to. The Google Cast protocol is actually p…

They shouldn't be forced to... But their is money to be made. YouTube TV is a paid service. If I owned a Roku and YouTube TV want available for it I may cancel my subscription.

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#296

Post by judge2020 » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 1:58 AM UTC

pkulak wrote: post #78

cirenehc wrote: post #54

> Roku alleges Google has asked it to favor YouTube music results from voice commands made on the Roku remote while the YouTube app is open, even if the user's music preference is set to default to another music app, like Pandora. How else do you use voice search for a music video on Youtube? If I open youtube and do a voice search. I'm expecting the search to be constrained to the app.

It sounds to me like they want the YouTube Music app to open when you search for a song on the YouTube app. Those are two entirely different apps, with different content, experiences, etc. It just so happens that Google named them the same, probably so they could more easily force integrations like this.

As said in the sibling comment, Google has combined all of their TV apps besides YTTV into the YouTube app. Music/Movies/Regular videos are all via that app. OP is saying "if i'm in an app, I want voice search to focus that app's search bar".

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#297

Post by judge2020 » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 2:00 AM UTC

indymike wrote: post #279

I've had Roku, Chromecasts, a couple different LG and Samsung smartTVs, and the best, far and away was the cheap TCL Roku TV. Why? Because everyone in the family could use it, and there were hundreds of streaming providers available. Chromecasts are easy, but require another device to work. The Roku TV? You could operate it from the buttons on the TV if you lost the remote (a regular occurrence with 7 people in the h…

I'm still astonished by how much LG and Samsung are able to cripple their own devices in the performance department. It's like they bought the cheapest chip/mainboard that checked the box 'smooth 30fps 4k hdr'.

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#298

Post by AdamJacobMuller » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 2:09 AM UTC

fra wrote: post #14

s3r3nity wrote: post #2

> Roku alleges Google has asked it to favor YouTube music results from voice commands made on the Roku remote while the YouTube app is open, even if the user's music preference is set to default to another music app, like Pandora. > Roku says Google has threatened to require Roku to use certain chip sets or memory cards that would force Roku to increase the price of its hardware product, which competes directly with…

I'm not quite ready to take out the pitchforks... > Roku says Google has threatened to require Roku to use certain chip sets or memory cards that would force Roku to increase the price of its hardware product, which competes directly with Google's Chromecast. This could simply mean Google is requiring chips with hardware VP9 support > Roku alleges Google has asked it to favor YouTube music results from voice commands…

> This could simply mean Google is requiring chips with hardware VP9 support

Almost definitely what they want but that isn't benign. There's very little user benefit here (lower bandwidth costs IF you're on a metered connection which is a tiny % of people) and lots of benefit to google/youtube (lower bandwidth!) and lots of extra cost to roku (these chips will cost more, at least in the short term). So google is basically forcing Roku to spend money to save google money.

That said, VP9 isn't just a good idea for Google. It's a good idea for everyone doing video delivery. Google and everyone else shouldn't be strong-arming Roku into deploying VP9-capable hardware they should be finding ways to help. Buy a billion dollars worth of VP9-capable chips for the next Chromecast on the condition that they cost no more than 10% more than H264-chips and the manufacturer agrees to sell to anyone at that price... or... something.

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#299

Post by mastrsushi » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 2:18 AM UTC

Imagine how excited you would've felt if you won a Roku in 2021. You'd probably try to sell it. Or maybe you'd give it to your grandmother, unless you already gave her one way back in 2012.

The bigger picture is that streaming has become such an expected, basic, embedded functionality and Roku along with other dependent companies failed to adapt.

Yes, Google is in a consistent, self denying state of being evil, but Roku has become the Blackberry of stream boxes. They haven't done anything innovative in years. I won't be surprised if they will be forever flooded by a storm of no-name Chinese Linux/Java powered stream boxes. Obviously these devices don't provide the same user experience, but they definitely reflect Roku's mediocrity.

Roku seems to be playing victim.

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#300

Post by mastazi » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 2:18 AM UTC

latortuga wrote: post #240

rurp wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have both a Roku and a Chromecast and the Roku works _much_ better. The Chromecast used to be fine, but a few years ago they refactored it in the Home app and now it constantly needs to be reconnected to the wifi. That would be annoying enough but the setup process also fails regularly. No other device in my house has this problem.

I have used: - a Roku - the newest "Chromecast with Google TV" - old style chromecasts - an "smart TV" with Android TV - A "smart TV" from visio The worst by far are the smart TVs. The old chromecast is next because there's no UI outside my phone, but I always have my phone so it's not that bad. Next is the Roku and finally, top marks for the CCGTV. It's super fast and responsive and I love it.

My experience with the Chromecast with Google TV is that many apps that are available on other platforms are missing on Google TV / Android TV - one example would be NHK World (the English language service from the Japanese NHK TV) and another example is Flo Sports (a sports streaming app). For this reason I'm thinking of getting a Fire TV or an Apple TV where those missing apps are available.

When I purchased the Google TV device I was under the impression that Android TV was one of the major platform on the market, but later I found out that in terms of apps choice, it's not the best.

Also, it's puzzling that some apps are available for Amazon's Fire TV but not for Google TV / Android TV - both are based on Android so I thought it would be very easy to make an app available to both platforms - maybe there are some technical aspects that I'm missing.