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Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

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Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#231

Post by npsimons »

sircastor wrote: post #158
etempleton wrote: post #142

HBO Max was delayed in appearing on Roku because of negotiation breakdowns. In the case HBO it was Roku that seemed to have the demands. They are looking at revenue anywhere they can, but if their position weakens look for Google, ATT, and others to simply forgo working with them. I think Roku is in a perilous position in general. They generated a lot of buzz on Wallstreet with their high user counts. They also purch…

The reason I picked and stay with Roku is that they aren't married to a single Big Tech co. I already suffer the lack of a proper YouTube app on my Echo Show because Amazon and Google are having a tiff. I don't want to pick an ecosystem and live exclusively inside of it. As it is, I'm already in a mixed household (Me with iOS and my wife with Android) and it's a pain to deal with the lack of cross-platform playing to…

> The reason I picked and stay with Roku is that they aren't married to a single Big Tech co.

Same. I'm so sick of being locked into one system or another, having my eyeballs monetized, or getting the shitty version of an app because it isn't the vendor's platform. I got a Roku because they're as neutral as one can get, and so far I'm happy paying for YouTube Premium, Amazon Prime and Netflix. You tell me I can't run those on my Roku, well fuck you and your service.

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#232

Post by Mindwipe »

dangus wrote: post #181
slenk wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you are fully in the Apple ecosystem already, it's not very welcoming. Price being one thing but with how Apple recently demonstrated they can just take away all your movies with no recourse, I will pass

1. I assume by “not welcoming” you mean “unable to buy/rent movies from Vudu/Amazon Prime on the box” and that’s a fair criticism. Someone wanting to buy/rent through third party services will find opening a separate browser to be annoying, but that leads me to... 2. iTunes is part of Movies Anywhere just like all its competitors. Being “required” to purchase/rent movies through iTunes isn’t really ecosystem lock-in.…

> 2. iTunes is part of Movies Anywhere just like all its competitors. Being “required” to purchase/rent movies through iTunes isn’t really ecosystem lock-in.

Movies Anywhere doesn't exist outside of the US fwiw.

Personally I flat out don't trust Apple on content censorship, as I think the Apple TV UI is not very good.

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#233

Post by r00t4ccess »

cptskippy wrote: post #88
smt88 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is both what many users would expect (if I have an app open, voice search works within that app) No, it's not. Most YouTube users have a different primary music app. Google is trying to artificially force a marriage of YouTube and YouTube Music because they have utterly failed to do it in the product experience and user base themselves. If I'm watching a random YouTube video and then want to switch to music, I…

As a Roku user who thinks Google takes a pretty hostile approach to anyone using their App on Roku, I disagree. If I'm in an App and search, I expect my search to be localized to that App. That being said, f*k Roku and their voice remote. They've been pushing that crap hard. Showing prompts on screen for upwards of 30 seconds to push the Mic button. I don't want my remote to have a microphone or be able to listen to…

Thats interesting, when i got my first roku with voice control, the remote had the voice control button where the play button used to be so i cut it off the remote with a knife because it was annoying the shit out of me.

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#234

Post by minhazm »

bogwog wrote: post #141
Spivak wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was “you must have a Netflix button and no others” I could see the argument but the demand for a particular user experience isn’t anticompetitive automatically. Company with leverage others might not have using that leverage isn’t something we vilify in general.

If you're willfully ignorant of the situation, then sure. Otherwise, using leverage to favor your own product over competitors despite user preference is textbook anti-competitive behavior, almost comically so: Not only does it unfairly disadvantage competitors, but it also robs consumers of choice (by ignoring their preferences). I would love to see one of the meetings that lead to absurdly unethical and borderline/…

It's like Microsoft sponsoring the NFL and so they have to use Surface tablets. That means they don't have Apple, Samsung, Lenovo, and other competitors tablets. Is that anti-competitive? If so, then every business out there must be anti-competitive. Buying ads to get yourself on a higher position in search results, buying ads on TV during primetime slots, and any behavior that makes you look better than your competitors would also be anti-competitive.

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#235

Post by matwood »

cptskippy wrote: post #88
smt88 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is both what many users would expect (if I have an app open, voice search works within that app) No, it's not. Most YouTube users have a different primary music app. Google is trying to artificially force a marriage of YouTube and YouTube Music because they have utterly failed to do it in the product experience and user base themselves. If I'm watching a random YouTube video and then want to switch to music, I…

As a Roku user who thinks Google takes a pretty hostile approach to anyone using their App on Roku, I disagree. If I'm in an App and search, I expect my search to be localized to that App. That being said, f*k Roku and their voice remote. They've been pushing that crap hard. Showing prompts on screen for upwards of 30 seconds to push the Mic button. I don't want my remote to have a microphone or be able to listen to…

> That being said, f*k Roku and their voice remote. They've been pushing that crap hard. Showing prompts on screen for upwards of 30 seconds to push the Mic button. I don't want my remote to have a microphone or be able to listen to me.

It sounds like they have been pushing too hard, but discovery of voice commands is hard. Pushing them is probably useful for some set of customers.

For example, I have an ATV. While watching something you can click the voice button and say something like 'what did he just say' and it will go back 30 seconds or so, turn on captions, replay the bit you missed, then turn captions back off. As a user how would one discover this amazingly useful feature? I didn't even know it existed until I happened to hear about it on a podcast.

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#236

Post by r00t4ccess »

spockz wrote: post #213
tobr wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're using a fullscreen app on macOS and activate spotlight, do you expect it to only search that app, or do you expect it to behave like Spotlight always behaves and search the entire system? To make another analogy: Maybe Roku should ask Google to make the Chrome address/search bar only show Roku.com results if you’re already on their site.

Joking aside, it might actually be a nice feature if you could use the search bar of your browser to search into the single site specifically, just like you can have different search engines already.

You can do that

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#237

Post by Mindwipe »

adamsvystun wrote: post #102
calderwoodra wrote: post #57

Either the journalist has interpreted Roku's claims incorrectly, or Roku is spreading falsehoods. It's a very common practice for streaming services to make crazy demands about the devices they're on. Roku[1], Google TV[2] and Firesticks[3] all have Netflix buttons on the remote not because they wanted them there, but because Netflix forces them to with the threat that they will blacklist their device. And inevitably…

I think the difference here is that Netflix does not make the devices themselves, so they are an equal outside force on the market of smart tv devices. Google on the other hand is using it's YouTube product to influence things on the device side, where they have Chromecast as direct competitor.

Thing is Google are so internally disfuntional it seems unlikely that that's the actual aim here.

Thi is the same Google that still can't get their own gaming streaming service working on their own TV OS. And you think YouTube are trying to attack other manufacturers to boost sales of a $50 dongle with no margin?

Tbh I think it's more likely that nobody on the Chromecast team has ever met anyone from the YouTube team. Many things at Google would work better if they did.

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#238

Post by dhimes »

fra wrote: post #14
s3r3nity wrote: post #2

> Roku alleges Google has asked it to favor YouTube music results from voice commands made on the Roku remote while the YouTube app is open, even if the user's music preference is set to default to another music app, like Pandora. > Roku says Google has threatened to require Roku to use certain chip sets or memory cards that would force Roku to increase the price of its hardware product, which competes directly with…

I'm not quite ready to take out the pitchforks... > Roku says Google has threatened to require Roku to use certain chip sets or memory cards that would force Roku to increase the price of its hardware product, which competes directly with Google's Chromecast. This could simply mean Google is requiring chips with hardware VP9 support > Roku alleges Google has asked it to favor YouTube music results from voice commands…

I don't understand why Google, who is apparently competing with Roku with Chromecast, would try to "help" Roku fix a worse user experience? My Spidey sense tells me there's more to it than just trying to fix the Roku UX.

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#239

Post by Mindwipe »

tyre wrote: post #104
calderwoodra wrote: post #57

Either the journalist has interpreted Roku's claims incorrectly, or Roku is spreading falsehoods. It's a very common practice for streaming services to make crazy demands about the devices they're on. Roku[1], Google TV[2] and Firesticks[3] all have Netflix buttons on the remote not because they wanted them there, but because Netflix forces them to with the threat that they will blacklist their device. And inevitably…

Might the difference here be that Netflix doesn't have a competing product? Google could be incentivized to put onerous requirements on Roku which result in a worse user experience, price increases, or additional development time. That would benefit Chromecast.

The requirements for Netflix on a set-top box are... significant. Extremely.

Re: Roku says it may lose YouTube TV app after Google made anti-competitive demands

#240

Post by latortuga »

rurp wrote: post #215
etempleton wrote: post #142

HBO Max was delayed in appearing on Roku because of negotiation breakdowns. In the case HBO it was Roku that seemed to have the demands. They are looking at revenue anywhere they can, but if their position weakens look for Google, ATT, and others to simply forgo working with them. I think Roku is in a perilous position in general. They generated a lot of buzz on Wallstreet with their high user counts. They also purch…

I have both a Roku and a Chromecast and the Roku works _much_ better. The Chromecast used to be fine, but a few years ago they refactored it in the Home app and now it constantly needs to be reconnected to the wifi. That would be annoying enough but the setup process also fails regularly. No other device in my house has this problem.

I have used:

- a Roku - the newest "Chromecast with Google TV" - old style chromecasts - an "smart TV" with Android TV - A "smart TV" from visio

The worst by far are the smart TVs. The old chromecast is next because there's no UI outside my phone, but I always have my phone so it's not that bad. Next is the Roku and finally, top marks for the CCGTV. It's super fast and responsive and I love it.

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