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Investigating why McDonald's ice cream machines are often broken [video]

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Re: Investigating why McDonald's ice cream machines are often broken [video]

#171

Post by rdedev »

Spooky23 wrote: post #163
noahtallen wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the nightly heat cycle fails to complete for one of a dozen reasons the machine locks out. Those unaware of the process usually end up calling for service even if it’s a operations error(not enough product to boil successfully) This example is covered in the video. ;) The thing is, at least according to the reporting, even these operations errors are not clearly defined by the messages given by the machine. So,…

The reporting is based on conversations with franchisees, who are a part of the equation here too. McDonalds franchisees are always in a tug of war with the company over various issues, especially loss leader products like ice cream and the dollar menu. Thus, it mysteriously “breaks”. In some markets, a cone is $0.29 — it’s a money loser that the franchisee doesn’t like and probably doesn’t drive traffic in many loca…

This seems to be an issue with only McD. According to the video other vendors like Wendy's don't have this problem.

Remember that McD the company has nothing to loose from failing ice cream machines. That loss is taken by the franchise owners

Re: Investigating why McDonald's ice cream machines are often broken [video]

#172

Post by wronglebowski »

matthewdgreen wrote: post #168
raverbashing wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s part of the problem because Taylor is incentivized to keep people calling in technicians, which means they deliberately update the machines with error codes even more difficult to understand. (Examples covered in the video too) I do believe this happens but I'm also "skeptical" of the ability of a high attrition place with underqualified workers working under pressure to get themselves up to date in maintenanc…

It is very common for engineers to hypothesize (often with limited evidence) that the problem is “the users” rather than the technology and its support infrastructure. I think this can be true, but two points: 1. The high-attrition low-skill workforce at fast food restaurants is a fact of the industry. (I am not endorsing it either.) So if a solution is failing widely when faced with the reality of its users, then th…

While I understand this viewpoint and I don't necessarily disagree with it, this one piece of equipment is unique and that's why I think it is so often "broken".

No other piece of equipment has the mix of complexity and niche impact on the restaurant. Even the brand new at the time espresso machines are mostly self cleaning. There's no other object that requires this(minor IMO) skill level to operate. So it's just left undone. It's widely regarded that while it's a high profit machine most of the time you can run a highly successful business without it.

Re: Investigating why McDonald's ice cream machines are often broken [video]

#173

Post by wronglebowski »

evil-olive wrote: post #79
parineum wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there any reason why I, if I'm a McDonald's manager, couldn't take the training myself, and be the person who does the every-two-weeks maintenance? I'd go out on a limb and say that it's McDonalds corporate that doesn't trust the franchise owner with the machine, not the manufacturer trying to swindle franchise owners.

Sure. But replace "franchise owner" with "shift manager" or whatever other job title you want. The question remains - what's the barrier to entry to becoming "certified" as an ice cream machine cleaner? Is it legitimately a difficult cleaning process that requires an extremely specialized skill-set that only the High Priests of Ice Cream Machinery are able to perform? Or, as seems likely to me, cleaning the machine i…

As I've tried to express elsewhere, it's really not difficult. Anyone can do it given a few hours training.

Suggesting the franchise owner do it or even the store manager is far off from how these operations work in my experience.

Franchisees (Owners) have so much to do. They never "have" to work a single shift after they complete onboarding. While this can take around 9-12 months once most are done they never look back. Owners are tasked with running and growing the business, focusing on their local community and the people element. Any equipment work is not considered a good use of their time.

Re: Investigating why McDonald's ice cream machines are often broken [video]

#174

Post by hnbad »

Spooky23 wrote: post #163
noahtallen wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the nightly heat cycle fails to complete for one of a dozen reasons the machine locks out. Those unaware of the process usually end up calling for service even if it’s a operations error(not enough product to boil successfully) This example is covered in the video. ;) The thing is, at least according to the reporting, even these operations errors are not clearly defined by the messages given by the machine. So,…

The reporting is based on conversations with franchisees, who are a part of the equation here too. McDonalds franchisees are always in a tug of war with the company over various issues, especially loss leader products like ice cream and the dollar menu. Thus, it mysteriously “breaks”. In some markets, a cone is $0.29 — it’s a money loser that the franchisee doesn’t like and probably doesn’t drive traffic in many loca…

This is funny to me as the milkshakes are relatively expensive here in Germany yet the machines in some locations still seem to be perpetually broken. I'm not sure if the milkshake and ice cream machines are the same thing but if they're not I guess some franchisees just don't want to deal with the hassle of keeping them operable regardless of whether they're loss leaders or not.

Re: Investigating why McDonald's ice cream machines are often broken [video]

#175

Post by LatteLazy »

dependsontheq wrote: post #141

The Taylor revenue from service looks totally reasonable in that business, restaurant equipment needs a lot of service and fails often and you often have no alternative on hand, having fast and helpful service has the same value a good machine has. The software interface looks stupid, but ... that's really more of an industry problem.

Exactly. It's complex, it has to refrigerate and heat, it has to do complex things with fluids and moving parts, it has to be 100% safe and hygienic, output has to be 100% reproducible and its operated by a high school kid who's still a bit high from smoking earlier.

A better question is why they don't have 2+ machines to both share the load and give some redundancy. I'm all for economic self interest, so I assume ice-cream isn't a money maker (maybe even a loss leader?) so no one actually cares if the machine is down all day as long as people buy something else.

Re: Investigating why McDonald's ice cream machines are often broken [video]

#176

Post by gruez »

fouc wrote: post #169

summary: McDonalds only allows their franchisees to use one specific machine for ice cream, from one supplier. Most of their other equipment they have more than one choice for suppliers but not for the ice cream machine. The supplier is Taylor, which supplies ice cream machines to many other restaurants which do not suffer from the same problem. The Taylor-made machine for McDonald's is deliberately designed to have…

> The supplier is Taylor, which supplies ice cream machines to many other restaurants which do not suffer from the same problem.

AFAIK the difference is that the other restaurants machines don't self sanitize.

>The Taylor-made machine for McDonald's is deliberately designed to have a secret menu that only “authorized service personnel” are allowed to use

While I can see this being nefarious, I can also understand why they did it: they don't want franchisees to mess with the machine in a way that could compromise the sanitation cycle. For instance, one reason why cleaning fails is that because the target temperature hasn't been reached. If there was a temperature calibration in the secret menu, you could add a +20F degree offset to the thermometer, which would almost guarantee the target is met, but would introduce risk of food poisoning if the temperature is actually too low.

Re: Investigating why McDonald's ice cream machines are often broken [video]

#177

Post by gruez »

rdedev wrote: post #171
Spooky23 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reporting is based on conversations with franchisees, who are a part of the equation here too. McDonalds franchisees are always in a tug of war with the company over various issues, especially loss leader products like ice cream and the dollar menu. Thus, it mysteriously “breaks”. In some markets, a cone is $0.29 — it’s a money loser that the franchisee doesn’t like and probably doesn’t drive traffic in many loca…

This seems to be an issue with only McD. According to the video other vendors like Wendy's don't have this problem. Remember that McD the company has nothing to loose from failing ice cream machines. That loss is taken by the franchise owners

>According to the video other vendors like Wendy's don't have this problem.

because their machines don't self-sanitize.

Re: Investigating why McDonald's ice cream machines are often broken [video]

#178

Post by raverbashing »

matthewdgreen wrote: post #168
raverbashing wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s part of the problem because Taylor is incentivized to keep people calling in technicians, which means they deliberately update the machines with error codes even more difficult to understand. (Examples covered in the video too) I do believe this happens but I'm also "skeptical" of the ability of a high attrition place with underqualified workers working under pressure to get themselves up to date in maintenanc…

It is very common for engineers to hypothesize (often with limited evidence) that the problem is “the users” rather than the technology and its support infrastructure. I think this can be true, but two points: 1. The high-attrition low-skill workforce at fast food restaurants is a fact of the industry. (I am not endorsing it either.) So if a solution is failing widely when faced with the reality of its users, then th…

I agree with you, and I was not blaming the users/the workforce. As you said it is a fact of the industry.

McD is known for making their processes simple and repeatable and it seems the machine is failing that paradigm.

(And oh well, my comment was speculative and made before I saw the video, the users really can't do much when the company hides information from them - though we don't know exactly how the procedures are laid down in the manual and how they can be improved. it's one thing if the manual says "fill this up and press the button" another if it says "fill this up to this line and check A, B and C before pressing the button")

Re: Investigating why McDonald's ice cream machines are often broken [video]

#179

Post by wronglebowski »

numpad0 wrote: post #117
wronglebowski wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always had access to a Taylor manual and a Taylor technician via phone at no cost. Even with machines that were far out of warranty. Troubleshooting was never an issue for me. I never worked anywhere else with a Taylor machine. Perhaps other companies have better deals or easier to use equipment. I would like to know if Wendy's and others machines operate using the same food safety standards.

From this comment tree I wonder if the problem is some evil company being greedy, or is it a lack of incentives in McD and franchise owner to update SOP to properly train and assign a worker to properly maintain the machine to keep the machine running to offer ice creams consistently. Why do they keep an item on the menu if they are not being able to make it reliably?

It's a minor but important part of the profitability picture. While this is much less true today, one of the core concepts was always that McDonald's could execute things at scale no one else could.

Now there's a ton of competition and specialty shops, but in the past this wasn't always the case. A small town might only have one other location where you can get "fresh" ice cream. If you can execute on this machine properly and you have the market to support it they can be huge profit makers.

Re: Investigating why McDonald's ice cream machines are often broken [video]

#180

Post by gruez »

C19is20 wrote: post #70
zizee wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we please keep gender warfare off HN? (or at least when it has nothing to do with the story/discussion)

Isn't "mansplaining" nowadays so far gone that, as a word, it has become gender-neutral and is used instead of "condescending".

I literally never heard of it used in a women-explaining context.
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