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Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

nj.com

241–250 of 271 posts

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#241
post #198

I wonder why cops in the West don't use man catchers? It's a great tool to subdue any non-gun wielding person. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-2SpSMZtyU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4z-gzkb6s4 Pepper spray and stick don't work against someone who is strong and aggressive.

I had never even considered the possibility of something like this. I wonder what effective interventions we might be missing simply due to lack of creativity. I imagine a version of these wide enough for a person’s waist and with a locking mechanism could be used for knife/fistfights and be much more humane than shooting. Perhaps they could be stored in squad cars the way shotguns are.

"I thought I had grabbed the mancatcher, not the shotgun! It was an accident!"

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#242

I'm a highly educated individual, commonly read dense scientific works, philosophy, political science etc. Its my opinion that violent crime, and especially brazen violent crime is just flat out more common. Police are more frequently in life threatening situations. The demands on them to act perfectly are enormous. And so we see mistakes, broadly painted as racism. Its a cancerous thought framework, and it threatens…

Don't repost this all through the thread, please. It was bad enough the first time.

It really doesn't help support their position of being "highly educated", does it?

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most states the licenses are extremely hard to get, it's not a matter of just 'putting in the work'. They're effectively out of reach for your standard weed dealer.

A standard weed dealer is not on the same level as the person that would get the license. A standard dealer is part of a very large organization. They're the equivalent of a person working a cash register. I expect it's extremely hard for someone who starts out working the register at a McDonalds to become a franchise owner. That's not to say that getting a license isn't harder than starting a fast food franchise, bu…

Life isn't 'the wire', your standard dealer is a dude with a medium-grade connect and some friends.

As far as 'move fast and break things'.. in one sense, preserving the status quo is conservative, but it is also continually breaking things all the time. Glass, ribs, lives, etc. Compared to the status quo, we could break fewer things.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please show evidence for your claim. Anecdotes not accepted. Edit: Both links I posted discussed studies, statistics, and analysis relevant to this that belie your claim. Please rebut those or post your own.

It seems like it’s quite widely known that US police shoot everyone at a higher rather than any developed country. You can google those stats as well as anyone. That’s evidence for ‘brutality’, not excluding the possibility that they may also be brutalised by a difficult job with poor training.

That is known. I'm asking for the evidence of racism. That charge is much more suspect when looking at the data, despite it being widely believed.

I'll add that much of the international criticism of the number of police shootings in America fails to take into account the number of guns the citizenry has, legally registered or otherwise. This leads to greatly increased risk for all involved and leads police to use tactics that might not be needed elsewhere.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#245
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Logicslave said: "Its my opinion that violent crime, and especially brazen violent crime is just flat out more common." The data don't seem to support that. Obviously violent crime still exists in the USA, and from my point of view in NZ the rates seem scarily high. That doesn't mean they haven't decreased.

@mkI In San Francisco where I am violent crime has absolutely exploded since theft under $950 per day has been reduced to a misdemeanor. Adding fuel to this fire are opioid addicts stealing to feed their habit, a toxic combination of extremely violent attacks coupled with endless petty crime. The big Walgreens drugstore chain Walgreens has closed ten stores in SF primarily due to rampant crime, with a lot of small re…

Except more harsh policing is not the answer to this, especially the opioid crisis. If you want to see less crime and drugs, you improve the conditions that lead people to crime and drugs and then increased social work when people do run afoul.

The current police system in the US does not do that, and the prison system is purely set up to incarcerate folks and then ensure they will fail when they get out so that they end up going back in because gotta grease the wheels of prison capitalism.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

@mkI In San Francisco where I am violent crime has absolutely exploded since theft under $950 per day has been reduced to a misdemeanor. Adding fuel to this fire are opioid addicts stealing to feed their habit, a toxic combination of extremely violent attacks coupled with endless petty crime. The big Walgreens drugstore chain Walgreens has closed ten stores in SF primarily due to rampant crime, with a lot of small re…

Except more harsh policing is not the answer to this, especially the opioid crisis. If you want to see less crime and drugs, you improve the conditions that lead people to crime and drugs and then increased social work when people do run afoul. The current police system in the US does not do that, and the prison system is purely set up to incarcerate folks and then ensure they will fail when they get out so that they…

https://youtu.be/F2zt8XLh23g The activist and media agitator version of reality is very different to the banal every day disaster.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#247
Even if it stays stable, isn't that enough evidence that we don't need the Warrior Cop model? Being able to demonstrate an improvement in crime by toning down to play poker online https://easyeda.com/backlinkterbaik/idn-poker88-indonesia the violence is just gravy on top.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#248
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem with all this data is that it doesn't inform us of who is actually committing crimes. Arrest records do not provide this data either. If an area or activity is policed at a lower rate, it will look like fewer crimes are committed there. Example: there have been public "420" festivals all over the country dating back to well before the recent legalizations. These were not accompanied by mass arrests, des…

valid points, but I think some may read this as 'police choose to penalize based on race' kind of proofing. I recently had some deeper insights around this. I have witnessed reasoning for these things being different at different times over the years, but the main factor has been calls/reports/complaints from the communities. Busting people at an airbnb in a quite retirement neighborhood as opposed to a college campu…

You went into a lot of detail, but I just wanted to redirect attention to your initial suggestion that higher arrest rates of minorities is indicative of higher crime rates among those folks. You were just posing a question, I know. But the rhetorical device you used (whose name escapes me) prejudices the reader by presuming that the question has a knowable answer, which it does not. And citing arrest records is a red herring, for many of the reasons you elicit.

> it's often more a reflection of individual neighborhoods and communities and their tolerance or lack of tolerance for various things

Combining this with the larger discussion, are you suggesting that predominantly white communities have a higher tolerance for lawless behavior like drug use, and thus are comfortable being policed at lower rates? (Or the converse, that communities of color are less tolerant of lawbreaking and demand more policing.) I admit that I haven't heard that before. And it makes me uncomfortable, because on balance people I have known across ethnic groups are pretty much the same. It would be a little odd to discover that white communities are generally more tolerant of criminal behavior.

> Busting people at an airbnb in a quite retirement neighborhood as opposed to a college campus, drug complaints blocks from an elem school in a low income area as opposed to breckenridge, co - (which told it's police to leave weed alone many moons ago)

Intentionally unequal application of the laws starts with this kind of thinking, and leads to downstream problems that spring from the resulting distrust of the justice system.

Your Breck (95% white) example is telling. Communities shouldn't be able to exempt themselves from state & federal laws just because most of the residents are white and they have decided they don't like those laws. Even writing it sounds absurd. And it's definitely not a privilege that is afforded to communities of color.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe white and black people are on the same footing economically. They've been held down since slavery and it still affects them today. Here's a few examples: real estate redlining (even though that was banned it's still happening today in other forms https://projects.newsday.com/long-island/real-estate-agents-... ), the Tulsi race massacre (This story is crazy), urban renewal (Fillmore, West Oakland), all…

>I don't believe white and black people are on the same footing economically. I agree! I infer you think it has some causal connection with murder rates. I think that's probably true, but that the relationship is weak. Black people in the U.S., while poorer than average compared to the rest of the U.S. population, are some of the richest people in the world in terms of their actual material consumption. There are lot…

The vast majority of the murders are from violent gangs. That has a much stronger correlation than skin color
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