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Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

nj.com

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Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#181

Post by Klinky »

monoideism wrote: post #157
Klinky wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why the HN community has to honor/uphold/tolerate/defend the opinion of a throwaway account posting inaccurate information its own cited source refutes. These alternative viewpoints need to have some level of credibility to them, we should not defend every rando's opinion blindly. I don't think an "open society" has ever actually existed or is even possible. All freedoms are measured in degrees based on t…

> I don't see why the HN community has to honor/uphold/tolerate/defend Those are all very different words. And you do the same below when you mix up "tolerate" and "legitimize". Are you trying to confuse the debate? To be clear, I'm solely arguing for tolerate and not censor , not any of the other things. And wow, looking at that comment that was flagged, I can't comprehend how you would believe it's so repugnant tha…

>Those are all very different words.

Not really. You are arguing that misinformation needs to have a place on this platform, and have a chance to be heard. Again an outright misinformed post, that couldn't even back itself up, needs to be here. You are defending and legitimizing it with this point of view. Much evil has been done in the world because people "tolerated" things and just let injustice slide.

>you don't believe Soros is a liberal propagandist

Yes, but practically everyone is a propagandist, and has bias. Though he has more sway because money speaks.

>I've seen ethnic conflict up close and see every sign that the US is heading in that direction.

Where have you been for the last 250 years? The US was founded on genocide and slavery. Ethnic conflict has been here forever.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#182

Post by samatman »

There were 287 homicides in Newark in 2020, up from 234 in 2019. That's 53 more lives lost, a shocking 23% increase.

How related are these two facts? I don't know, but if you're going to come at this with "completely unrelated" I question your honesty.

Source: https://www.nj.com/crime/2020/12/homicides-in-nj-soared-22-i...

Edit: apologies for not reading the source carefully, I was mislead by the search I used to retrieve it. That was for all of New Jersey, not Newark, where homicides have been flat (and that is unusual for the United States in general).

I'm pretty distracted today. Sorry about that.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#183

Post by DanBC »

monocasa wrote: post #112
no_wizard wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither is PBS. It’s funded through grants, donations and government funding via the Corporation for Public Broadcasting [0] [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation_for_Public_Broad...

Right, but even to endusers, the BBC isn't free, unlike PBC.

The BBC is free. There's no charge to use the BBC.

There's a TV licence, but that's payable if you watch any live tv as it's broadcast.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#184

Post by failwhaleshark »

logicslave wrote: post #178
failwhaleshark wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems oversimplified. Do you have any data about the trends of gun possession by criminals or gun crime related to attacks on police? There are also a lot of innocent people being shot too, or the visibility of it has increased. Edit: also, could it be police are less trained or more fearful than in the past?

I'm a highly educated individual, commonly read dense scientific works, philosophy, political science etc. Its my opinion that violent crime, and especially brazen violent crime is just flat out more common. Police are more frequently in life threatening situations. The demands on them to act perfectly are enormous. And so we see mistakes, broadly painted as racism. Its a cancerous thought framework, and it threatens…

> I'm a highly educated individual, commonly read dense scientific works, philosophy, political science etc.

For a second, I thought you were going to mention MENSA. So do many of HN old guard. Appeal to authority isn't evidence; it's an opinion, and not even an expert opinion.

> threatens the law and order of a civilized nation

The US has the highest incarceration per capita on the planet (sans Seychelles), disproportionately imprisoning minorities. Consider the works and interviews by Chris Hedges, who teaches classes in prison. Many of his students are in for petty drug crimes. Furthermore, there are numerous aging inmates who were snared by the War on Drugs and in prison for no good reason. Remember, the WoD was explicitly used to target Nixon's perceived enemies: hippies and minorities. Then, (Nancy) Reagan decided it would be a good idea to go after drugs while simultaneously arming the Contras using cocaine, leading to the crack epidemic.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#185

Post by darkerside »

samatman wrote: post #182

There were 287 homicides in Newark in 2020, up from 234 in 2019. That's 53 more lives lost, a shocking 23% increase. How related are these two facts? I don't know, but if you're going to come at this with "completely unrelated" I question your honesty. Source: https://www.nj.com/crime/2020/12/homicides-in-nj-soared-22-i... Edit: apologies for not reading the source carefully, I was mislead by the search I used to ret…

https://www.statista.com/chart/23905/change-in-homicides-in-...

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#186

Post by 5vforest »

samatman wrote: post #182

There were 287 homicides in Newark in 2020, up from 234 in 2019. That's 53 more lives lost, a shocking 23% increase. How related are these two facts? I don't know, but if you're going to come at this with "completely unrelated" I question your honesty. Source: https://www.nj.com/crime/2020/12/homicides-in-nj-soared-22-i... Edit: apologies for not reading the source carefully, I was mislead by the search I used to ret…

Your cited source literally says the opposite:

> While Trenton and Paterson saw spikes this year, other cities like Newark and Jersey City haven’t seen much of a change.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#187

Post by failwhaleshark »

dfrankow wrote: post #177
creato wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure about entire departments, but for individual officers, it's not rare. Many if not most police officers never fire their weapon on duty for their entire careers. For some perspective, there are around a million police officers in the US ( https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=dcdetail&iid=249 ). A lot of police shooting incidents have made the national news in recent years, but I can think of tens of such inci…

Police kill about 1000-1200 people per year in the U.S., depending on who's counting. See for example the Washington Post data. So it's not just tens over a decade.

IIRC, isn't the CDC forbidden by law from investigating all types of deaths by firearms?

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#188

Post by vanviegen »

samatman wrote: post #182

There were 287 homicides in Newark in 2020, up from 234 in 2019. That's 53 more lives lost, a shocking 23% increase. How related are these two facts? I don't know, but if you're going to come at this with "completely unrelated" I question your honesty. Source: https://www.nj.com/crime/2020/12/homicides-in-nj-soared-22-i... Edit: apologies for not reading the source carefully, I was mislead by the search I used to ret…

2020 was by no means a typical year. A rise in domestic violence, perhaps? Still seems weird though.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#189

Post by bitexploder »

stouset wrote: post #148
bitexploder wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think American wrestling and or BJJ are much more practical than Judo as a martial art for police, but Judo is better than nothing. Judo is good for getting things to the ground, but the ground system of Judo is inadequate for many situations. (I’ve trained Judo and with many judokas, even advanced ones just aren’t very good on the ground without some other ground fighting system). Regardless it’s a big step in the…

As a fellow judoka, I’d agree. It’s unfortunate because there are some aspects that could make judo a better groundfighting base than BJJ for this type of situation. When a judo match goes to the ground, the competitors must be clearly making progress toward a pin or submission or the referee stands them up. This favors more explosive movements (resolving a situation quickly) over a slow positional game from your bac…

Good points, gyms can vary a lot. My gym and most gyms I have visited focus on wrestling style takedowns, and maybe some Judo stuff too depending on what the instructors know.

Honestly, for the general self defense you only need a few well practiced takedowns. We drill single leg, double leg, and I drill a couple collar based judo trip/throw. It mostly comes down to spending time on the feet. No-Gi at my academy lets you do basically anything from standing. My gym does a lot of MMA and has a strong competitive nature (we train for comps a lot) so we get a lot more focus on the standing game I think.

FWIW I have done Judo some too and find it fun. Except when I get slammed lol.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#190

Post by bigfudge »

chitowneats wrote: post #163
bigfudge wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, it can be true that the police are both generally brutal and racist. In fact that seems the most likely thing given my limited observations of US policing.

Please show evidence for your claim. Anecdotes not accepted. Edit: Both links I posted discussed studies, statistics, and analysis relevant to this that belie your claim. Please rebut those or post your own.

It seems like it’s quite widely known that US police shoot everyone at a higher rather than any developed country. You can google those stats as well as anyone. That’s evidence for ‘brutality’, not excluding the possibility that they may also be brutalised by a difficult job with poor training.
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