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Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

nj.com

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Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#201

Post by triceratops »

ardit33 wrote: post #171
deepakhj wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe white and black people are on the same footing economically. They've been held down since slavery and it still affects them today. Here's a few examples: real estate redlining (even though that was banned it's still happening today in other forms https://projects.newsday.com/long-island/real-estate-agents-... ), the Tulsi race massacre (This story is crazy), urban renewal (Fillmore, West Oakland), all…

I have heard the 'red-lining' problem, at is is a problem in wealth accumulation but it still doesn't explain high crime rates at all. Problem is that you have lots of poor immigrants that immigrated here from former communist countries, or latin america, or Laos/Cambodia, with no money and no savings whatsover. Some came as starving refugees, and are still poorer than the average. Yet, they don't end up doing crime…

I imagine immigrants self-select for traits like conscientiousness, ambition, and drive. Comparing them to the general population won't yield useful results.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#202

Post by rolha-capoeira »

logicslave wrote: post #178
failwhaleshark wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems oversimplified. Do you have any data about the trends of gun possession by criminals or gun crime related to attacks on police? There are also a lot of innocent people being shot too, or the visibility of it has increased. Edit: also, could it be police are less trained or more fearful than in the past?

I'm a highly educated individual, commonly read dense scientific works, philosophy, political science etc. Its my opinion that violent crime, and especially brazen violent crime is just flat out more common. Police are more frequently in life threatening situations. The demands on them to act perfectly are enormous. And so we see mistakes, broadly painted as racism. Its a cancerous thought framework, and it threatens…

"George Floyd robbed a women by holding his gun to her pregnant stomach." Even if true, cops aren't supposed to be judge, jury, and executioner. Talk about threatening "law and order".

"Adam Toledo was known in his neighborhood as "Lil Homicide"" Even if you believe this, let's just kill all children with violent nicknames, eh?

I don't know why I bothered, when you opened your comment by boasting about your alleged intelligence. I hope you are never in a position to hurt anyone with your law and order.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#203

Post by wizzwizz4 »

creato wrote: post #195
dfrankow wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Police kill about 1000-1200 people per year in the U.S., depending on who's counting. See for example the Washington Post data. So it's not just tens over a decade.

First, that means ~99.9% of police officers in the US don't shoot someone, so that isn't rare, as the post I responded to suggested. Second, I didn't say the police only kill tens of people over a decade, I said tens of incidents have made the national news. Only the noteworthy cases make the national news, which is kind of the point here. People's opinions are shaped by the most extreme incidents. I think we should…

It's not the deaths, per se. It's the entire structure around it that enables those deaths to happen, and prevents consequences for the killers.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#204

Post by chitowneats »

bigfudge wrote: post #192
chitowneats wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but you're just incorrect if you're suggesting white Americans don't consume cannabis at high rates.

No I wasn’t suggesting that. However in black populations in the UK at least smoking weed is more ‘normal’ than it is in white populations. By normal I mean accepted and not deviant, not necessarily to imply higher consumption.

I see. There is a history of racist or xenophobic criminalization of marijuana (when it was called that commonly) in the US. See reefer madness and associated politics. Disparity in use is no longer the case in the US.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#205

Post by orf »

logicslave wrote: post #178
failwhaleshark wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems oversimplified. Do you have any data about the trends of gun possession by criminals or gun crime related to attacks on police? There are also a lot of innocent people being shot too, or the visibility of it has increased. Edit: also, could it be police are less trained or more fearful than in the past?

I'm a highly educated individual, commonly read dense scientific works, philosophy, political science etc. Its my opinion that violent crime, and especially brazen violent crime is just flat out more common. Police are more frequently in life threatening situations. The demands on them to act perfectly are enormous. And so we see mistakes, broadly painted as racism. Its a cancerous thought framework, and it threatens…

> I'm a highly educated individual, commonly read dense scientific works, philosophy, political science etc

And yet you wrote something as cringey as that.

> Adam Toledo was known in his neighborhood as "Lil Homicide”

Imagine having such a highly educated brain, filled with dense scientific works as well as philosophy, and using it to justify the murder of an unarmed 13 year old child by the state.

None of the examples you used in any way justify their death nor do they lend any evidence to the idea that systematic racism within the police force doesn’t exist.

Edit: to the person who replied saying that not liking kids being shot by the police is nothing but ‘the "woke" liberal "narrative" that is leaking onto HN’ then deleted their comment, seek help.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#206

Post by koolba »

tyingq wrote: post #193
samatman wrote: post #182

There were 287 homicides in Newark in 2020, up from 234 in 2019. That's 53 more lives lost, a shocking 23% increase. How related are these two facts? I don't know, but if you're going to come at this with "completely unrelated" I question your honesty. Source: https://www.nj.com/crime/2020/12/homicides-in-nj-soared-22-i... Edit: apologies for not reading the source carefully, I was mislead by the search I used to ret…

You're quoting stats for all of New Jersey, not just Newark. This sentence is in your linked source: "In Newark, the state’s most populous city, 51 homicides occurred in 2020 as of Dec. 30 — the same number the city had in 2019, officials said." Which seems pretty notable. The most populous city is flat, while the state itself is up 23%.

Given the lack of commuters and total cancellation of sporting events limiting tourism, I’d expect a drop in overall crime of all kinds in Newark. A flat number with the lower flow of people isn’t necessarily a drop.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#207

Post by logicslave »

rolha-capoeira wrote: post #202
logicslave wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a highly educated individual, commonly read dense scientific works, philosophy, political science etc. Its my opinion that violent crime, and especially brazen violent crime is just flat out more common. Police are more frequently in life threatening situations. The demands on them to act perfectly are enormous. And so we see mistakes, broadly painted as racism. Its a cancerous thought framework, and it threatens…

"George Floyd robbed a women by holding his gun to her pregnant stomach." Even if true, cops aren't supposed to be judge, jury, and executioner. Talk about threatening "law and order". "Adam Toledo was known in his neighborhood as "Lil Homicide"" Even if you believe this, let's just kill all children with violent nicknames, eh? I don't know why I bothered, when you opened your comment by boasting about your alleged i…

Both of those examples are easily verifiable with a google search. Murals of Adam Toledo have "Lil Homicide" as part of the mural.

"Well you know so what if George FLoyd threatened to shoot a pregnant woman in the stomach! Hes a gentle giant! A working class honest man!" -Brainwashed Americans

Go look at the murder rate of ethnic groups, against their own groups and then against other groups. If minorities are killing alot of people, its not a "racism" problem. Framing it as so is brainwashing. You are a political pawn

If you want to take it further, look at a break down of murder rate of ethnic groups by income decile.

This is a cultural problem, and people are not owning up to the glorification of violence

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#208

Post by wizzwizz4 »

logicslave wrote: post #180

I'm a highly educated individual, commonly read dense scientific works, philosophy, political science etc. Its my opinion that violent crime, and especially brazen violent crime is just flat out more common. Police are more frequently in life threatening situations. The demands on them to act perfectly are enormous. And so we see mistakes, broadly painted as racism. Its a cancerous thought framework, and it threatens…

Don't repost this all through the thread, please. It was bad enough the first time.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#209

Post by olivermarks »

mkl wrote: post #197
logicslave wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a highly educated individual, commonly read dense scientific works, philosophy, political science etc. Its my opinion that violent crime, and especially brazen violent crime is just flat out more common. Police are more frequently in life threatening situations. The demands on them to act perfectly are enormous. And so we see mistakes, broadly painted as racism. Its a cancerous thought framework, and it threatens…

Maybe you should base your opinions on data: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-... Violent crime in the USA has fallen dramatically in the last 20 years.

'If it is fact, not fiction, that violent street crime today is almost exclusively a minority phenomenon, then it would appear that one simply may not speak about it. That proscription injures law-abiding residents of high-crime areas most of all, people like the aunt of a child victim in St. Louis, who told the Washington Post in October: “I live in fear of living in St. Louis. I feel trapped.” Such citizens beg for more police protection and see the police as the only thing standing between them and anarchy.'

From https://www.city-journal.org/media-silence-on-black-on-black...

Maybe you should spend less time looking at government data and more time experiencing the streets.

https://youtu.be/QfCZqkpS4PA

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#210

Post by tyingq »

koolba wrote: post #206
tyingq wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're quoting stats for all of New Jersey, not just Newark. This sentence is in your linked source: "In Newark, the state’s most populous city, 51 homicides occurred in 2020 as of Dec. 30 — the same number the city had in 2019, officials said." Which seems pretty notable. The most populous city is flat, while the state itself is up 23%.

Given the lack of commuters and total cancellation of sporting events limiting tourism, I’d expect a drop in overall crime of all kinds in Newark. A flat number with the lower flow of people isn’t necessarily a drop.

I don't know the reasons, but that wasn't the case for murder. Murders in US cities were almost universally up, by big numbers, in 2020. "Flat" for Newark was an actual accomplishment.

https://twitter.com/Crimealytics/status/1343950694672379905

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/06/953254623/massive-1-year-rise...

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