Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020 • Hacker News Board

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#211

Post by wizzwizz4 » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 8:41 PM UTC

zo1 wrote: post #173

brigandish wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We need Robocop more than ever in this country. Or Judge's like Dredd. Both were a satire on fascism, I'm not sure they're the best examples you could find.

And yet here we are, in just the last few days: 1. Making organ "donation" default and you have to "opt out". 2. Talking about a 100% inheritance "tax" so parents can't leave their possessions to children. Talk about fascism, most people can't even see it coming.

Once you're dead, what's wrong with being used for parts? It's like the “would you kill 1 person to save 10 people” thought experiment except the 1 person is already dead.

If you object, object. It's not like that's being taken away from you. There's a change in policy that will save hundreds of lives, at the cost of… no problem for anyone who cares enough to fill in a form.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#212

Post by wizzwizz4 » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 8:43 PM UTC

JamisonM wrote: post #29

School-Cotton wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> More likely the pandemic is to blame. You mean the response to the pandemic, not the pandemic itself.

I don't know what the OP meant but I certainly would mean specifically "the pandemic is to blame". If there were no discernable response to the pandemic from any organized institution in society there is a pretty good chance the pandemic itself could be blamed for a /lot/ of terrible things.

> If there were no discernable response to the pandemic

I think this is the point GP's making.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#213

Post by colinmhayes » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 8:50 PM UTC

ardit33 wrote: post #171

deepakhj wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe white and black people are on the same footing economically. They've been held down since slavery and it still affects them today. Here's a few examples: real estate redlining (even though that was banned it's still happening today in other forms https://projects.newsday.com/long-island/real-estate-agents-... ), the Tulsi race massacre (This story is crazy), urban renewal (Fillmore, West Oakland), all…

I have heard the 'red-lining' problem, at is is a problem in wealth accumulation but it still doesn't explain high crime rates at all. Problem is that you have lots of poor immigrants that immigrated here from former communist countries, or latin america, or Laos/Cambodia, with no money and no savings whatsover. Some came as starving refugees, and are still poorer than the average. Yet, they don't end up doing crime…

Immigrants are by definition the hardest working people. Comparing them to normal people is worthless.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#214

Post by simfree » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 8:52 PM UTC

logicslave wrote: post #178

failwhaleshark wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems oversimplified. Do you have any data about the trends of gun possession by criminals or gun crime related to attacks on police? There are also a lot of innocent people being shot too, or the visibility of it has increased. Edit: also, could it be police are less trained or more fearful than in the past?

I'm a highly educated individual, commonly read dense scientific works, philosophy, political science etc. Its my opinion that violent crime, and especially brazen violent crime is just flat out more common. Police are more frequently in life threatening situations. The demands on them to act perfectly are enormous. And so we see mistakes, broadly painted as racism. Its a cancerous thought framework, and it threatens…

Were Adam Toledo, Duante Wright or George Floyd threatening anyone's life or liberty at the time of their deaths?

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#215

Post by bingbong70 » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 8:52 PM UTC

lolinder wrote: post #196

bingbong70 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Large % of black Americans don't trust the criminal justice system and police, I expect this leads to more extrajudicial crime fighting carried out by the community that skews assault/murder rates.

That's not skewed numbers, "extrajudicial crime fighting" that ends with someone dead is correctly categorized as murder. Lack of trust in the system is a problem, but retributive killings are not the solution.

>someone dead is correctly categorized as murder.

Yes but how the data is recorded and interpreted is definitely skewed by a population not being able to rely-on/trust what should be public services.

What is the correct solution for tax payers that are criminalized by the institutions that they are forced to fund?

For decades nobody even believed the black horror stories about police misconduct until body cams/camera phones were widely available and the news was forced to cover them.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#216

Post by colinmhayes » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 8:53 PM UTC

logicslave wrote: post #180

I'm a highly educated individual, commonly read dense scientific works, philosophy, political science etc. Its my opinion that violent crime, and especially brazen violent crime is just flat out more common. Police are more frequently in life threatening situations. The demands on them to act perfectly are enormous. And so we see mistakes, broadly painted as racism. Its a cancerous thought framework, and it threatens…

Imagine thinking anyone would believe someone with such an idiotic opening sentence is actually "highly educated,"

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#217

Post by ineedasername » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 8:57 PM UTC

bigfudge wrote: post #162

ineedasername wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Selling is different, I think, than possession because dealers are often not just selling one thing like marijuana, but more dangerous drugs as well. I can understand an arrest in the case of dealing.

Worth remembering that Alcohol is more dangerous than most illegal drugs, including meth, ecstasy, hallucinogens etc.

By what metric is meth less dangerous?

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#218

Post by stadium » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 8:58 PM UTC

kar5pt wrote: post #145

stadium wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The police don't get to decide who committed a crime, the judicial system does. Yours is the same argument that George Floyd deserved what he got because he was a criminal. Being arrested or frisked by police does not a criminal make. Conviction does. It's a duck.

It seems like a completely different argument to me. He's not arguing that committing crimes (or being involved in events that may be legally deemed crimes after the fact) means that someone _deserves_ to have force used on them. He's saying that it makes sense that police would be more likely to use force against people who are more frequently involved in said events.

> it makes sense that police would be more likely to use force against people who are more frequently involved in said events

Hence the systemic racism problem in a nutshell. It only makes sense through the lense of human bias and racism. Are those "people" really more frequently involved in said events, or are they more frequently policed?

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#219

Post by NoImmatureAdHom » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 8:58 PM UTC

triceratops wrote: post #201

ardit33 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have heard the 'red-lining' problem, at is is a problem in wealth accumulation but it still doesn't explain high crime rates at all. Problem is that you have lots of poor immigrants that immigrated here from former communist countries, or latin america, or Laos/Cambodia, with no money and no savings whatsover. Some came as starving refugees, and are still poorer than the average. Yet, they don't end up doing crime…

I imagine immigrants self-select for traits like conscientiousness, ambition, and drive. Comparing them to the general population won't yield useful results.

There are all sorts of immigrants...economic migrants, refugees, etc.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#220

Post by syops » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 9:01 PM UTC

monoideism wrote: post #101

syops wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my perspective the U.S. has steadily shifted to the right the past 40 years. I doubt that a person advocating Reagan’s policies would be supported by today’s Republican Party. We have entered into territory where the paradox of tolerance is very much a reality. Tolerance is no longer a good option when confronting disingenuous comments. There is a significant segment of the American public that simply can no lon…

This is what has actually happened to the country's political values (click animate to view the data over the past several decades): https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/interactives/political-... Here is a more detailed discussion of the data. Tragically, Pew Research describes the situation as dire even back in 2014, which was before polarization really started to accelerate. https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/20…

Thank you for the link to the Pew research. Here’s my response to the claims of the research and this response is solely based off of my observations and clearly my observations could have led me astray.

In 1980 anyone claiming Jimmy Carter’s wife was a man would have been labeled a kook by the vast majority of Republicans. Today we have a nontrivial amount of conservatives/libertarians who believe this claim about Michelle Obama. We have non-trivial amounts of Republicans who think Covid is a hoax. We have non-trivial amounts of Republicans who think vaccines are harmful. I’m not talking about Covid vaccines but another measles vaccines and polio vaccines. We have Republicans today call the affordable care act socialism when it was a proposal of the Heritage Foundation in the early 90s. We have Republicans today decry cap and trade when cap and trade was used by Reagan to combat acid rain. Today any Republican who says that the tax on labor should be less than the tax on capital would not be supported by the party and this was Reagan’s position. The list goes on.

The Republican Party has shifted into crazy land. They supported a President that mocked a former prisoner of war in their own party. The party of family values supported a serial sex abuser. They supported a man who wondered if nuclear weapons could stop a hurricane. They supported a man who thought Obama wasn’t born in the United States.

This is a party that resides in cuckoo land. There is no middle grounds with such spineless, inconsistent, hypocritical people. There is no way to reason with such people. The party is detached from reality.