Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

nj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 271 posts

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#191

Post by logicslave »

failwhaleshark wrote: post #184
logicslave wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a highly educated individual, commonly read dense scientific works, philosophy, political science etc. Its my opinion that violent crime, and especially brazen violent crime is just flat out more common. Police are more frequently in life threatening situations. The demands on them to act perfectly are enormous. And so we see mistakes, broadly painted as racism. Its a cancerous thought framework, and it threatens…

> I'm a highly educated individual, commonly read dense scientific works, philosophy, political science etc. For a second, I thought you were going to mention MENSA. So do many of HN old guard. Appeal to authority isn't evidence; it's an opinion, and not even an expert opinion. > threatens the law and order of a civilized nation The US has the highest incarceration per capita on the planet (sans Seychelles), dispropo…

"disproportionately imprisoning minorities"

Go look at the murder rate of ethnic groups, against their own groups and then against other groups. If minorities are killing alot of people, its not a "racism" problem. Framing it as so is brainwashing. You are a political pawn

If you want to take it further, look at a break down of murder rate of ethnic groups by income decile.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#192

Post by bigfudge »

chitowneats wrote: post #161
bigfudge wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If black Americans smoke weed rather than alcohol then yes, they take different drugs. Weed is criminalised far in excess of any justification based on personal or social harms. It just seems normal to drink, in a rational drug policy it would be more controlled than many other drugs.

I'm sorry but you're just incorrect if you're suggesting white Americans don't consume cannabis at high rates.

No I wasn’t suggesting that. However in black populations in the UK at least smoking weed is more ‘normal’ than it is in white populations. By normal I mean accepted and not deviant, not necessarily to imply higher consumption.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#193

Post by tyingq »

samatman wrote: post #182

There were 287 homicides in Newark in 2020, up from 234 in 2019. That's 53 more lives lost, a shocking 23% increase. How related are these two facts? I don't know, but if you're going to come at this with "completely unrelated" I question your honesty. Source: https://www.nj.com/crime/2020/12/homicides-in-nj-soared-22-i... Edit: apologies for not reading the source carefully, I was mislead by the search I used to ret…

You're quoting stats for all of New Jersey, not just Newark.

This sentence is in your linked source:

"In Newark, the state’s most populous city, 51 homicides occurred in 2020 as of Dec. 30 — the same number the city had in 2019, officials said."

Which seems pretty notable. The most populous city is flat, while the state itself is up 23%.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#194

Post by martin_bech »

samatman wrote: post #182

There were 287 homicides in Newark in 2020, up from 234 in 2019. That's 53 more lives lost, a shocking 23% increase. How related are these two facts? I don't know, but if you're going to come at this with "completely unrelated" I question your honesty. Source: https://www.nj.com/crime/2020/12/homicides-in-nj-soared-22-i... Edit: apologies for not reading the source carefully, I was mislead by the search I used to ret…

One of the big differences between the US and Europe. Violence is way down here, as the nightlife is pretty much gone because of the covid restrictions.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#195

Post by creato »

dfrankow wrote: post #177
creato wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure about entire departments, but for individual officers, it's not rare. Many if not most police officers never fire their weapon on duty for their entire careers. For some perspective, there are around a million police officers in the US ( https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=dcdetail&iid=249 ). A lot of police shooting incidents have made the national news in recent years, but I can think of tens of such inci…

Police kill about 1000-1200 people per year in the U.S., depending on who's counting. See for example the Washington Post data. So it's not just tens over a decade.

First, that means ~99.9% of police officers in the US don't shoot someone, so that isn't rare, as the post I responded to suggested.

Second, I didn't say the police only kill tens of people over a decade, I said tens of incidents have made the national news. Only the noteworthy cases make the national news, which is kind of the point here. People's opinions are shaped by the most extreme incidents.

I think we should try to reform how policing is done to improve these issues. But I also don't think it's the crisis that our society has made it out to be recently.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#196

Post by lolinder »

bingbong70 wrote: post #147
lolinder wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those stats don't say what you think they say. Those show that white people are no more likely to kill black people than black people are to kill white people. They do not say that black people are no more likely to kill someone .

Large % of black Americans don't trust the criminal justice system and police, I expect this leads to more extrajudicial crime fighting carried out by the community that skews assault/murder rates.

That's not skewed numbers, "extrajudicial crime fighting" that ends with someone dead is correctly categorized as murder. Lack of trust in the system is a problem, but retributive killings are not the solution.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#197

Post by mkl »

logicslave wrote: post #178
failwhaleshark wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems oversimplified. Do you have any data about the trends of gun possession by criminals or gun crime related to attacks on police? There are also a lot of innocent people being shot too, or the visibility of it has increased. Edit: also, could it be police are less trained or more fearful than in the past?

I'm a highly educated individual, commonly read dense scientific works, philosophy, political science etc. Its my opinion that violent crime, and especially brazen violent crime is just flat out more common. Police are more frequently in life threatening situations. The demands on them to act perfectly are enormous. And so we see mistakes, broadly painted as racism. Its a cancerous thought framework, and it threatens…

Maybe you should base your opinions on data: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-...

Violent crime in the USA has fallen dramatically in the last 20 years.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#198

Post by enaaem »

I wonder why cops in the West don't use man catchers? It's a great tool to subdue any non-gun wielding person.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-2SpSMZtyU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4z-gzkb6s4

Pepper spray and stick don't work against someone who is strong and aggressive.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#199

Post by [deleted] »

throwaway1090 wrote: post #127
AtNightWeCode wrote: post #17

Good for Newark! But, from what I understand, they gave the cops better training and got better result. That is how education works.

In addition to education, as per the article, "They hired more Black and brown officers" ; "required any officer who uses force in any way to report it in detail, and for the supervisor to review it". Resulting in "The bad cops were suddenly outed."

[deleted]

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#200

Post by olivermarks »

logicslave wrote: post #191
failwhaleshark wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm a highly educated individual, commonly read dense scientific works, philosophy, political science etc. For a second, I thought you were going to mention MENSA. So do many of HN old guard. Appeal to authority isn't evidence; it's an opinion, and not even an expert opinion. > threatens the law and order of a civilized nation The US has the highest incarceration per capita on the planet (sans Seychelles), dispropo…

"disproportionately imprisoning minorities" Go look at the murder rate of ethnic groups, against their own groups and then against other groups. If minorities are killing alot of people, its not a "racism" problem. Framing it as so is brainwashing. You are a political pawn If you want to take it further, look at a break down of murder rate of ethnic groups by income decile.

A sobering article to back up @logicslave's point https://www.city-journal.org/media-silence-on-black-on-black...
Post reply on HN