Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020 • Hacker News Board

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#121

Post by astura » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 5:27 PM UTC

wolverine876 wrote: post #89

helloworld11 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Newark PD still arrests Black people at a much much higher rate than white people. And if it's the case that people in the city's black community are committing arrestable offenses (however stupid some definitions of what is an offense for which you can be arrested and charged with for are), then what should the department do? Not arrest people for doing things it's been ordered to arrest people for doing just becau…

> if There is a lot of evidence, that is easy to find, that laws criminalize African-Americans (e.g., drugs abused by poor African-Americans are criminal and result in prison; those abused by wealthy white people are sicknesses and result in treatment); that police harass and are brutal toward them (e.g., driving while black, predictive policing, and all the well-documented brutality and racism), and that prosecutors…

I always point to the case of three black teens arrested for the "crime" of waiting for the bus to a basketball scrimmage.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/12/04/charge...

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#122

Post by oh_sigh » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 5:27 PM UTC

elil17 wrote: post #16

bananabiscuit wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check the demographics, white people make up only about one third of the population in Newark.

Arresting at a hire rate means in comparison to the demographics of the city. In 2020, 50% of Newark residents were Black but 80% of arrests were of Black people. 80% of victims of police use of force were Black. A third of the city is white but only 4% of police use of force victims are white. [1] [1]: https://www.nj.com/opinion/2020/07/newark-must-do-more-to-st...

Won't there always be racial disparities in policing outside of the police's control if different socio-economic classes commit crimes at different rates, and different races are differently distributed among the socio-economic classes?

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#123

Post by nobodyandproud » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 5:28 PM UTC

bitexploder wrote: post #88

misiti3780 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sam Harris has a new, very interesting podcast with Rener Gracie about police training and how inadequate it is across the entire United States. Officers in California get one - 4 hour course every two years to learn how to subdue criminals, and of the 4 hours, only one is actually spent training, the other three are instruction. Rener Gracie is obviously famous for Brazilian jiu-jitsu but he also trains police on ho…

My BJJ gym offers deep discount to police. This is a good thing. I’ve rolled with many police fresh to grappling and even with my limited skills they are very easy to subdue. No wonder they resort to weapons (lethal and less than lethal) so quickly. I have been training a few years now.

Judo (the mother of bjj) is seeing a revival in police circles.

It’s good to see grappling arts make a comeback, as there are plenty of non-lethal ways to make someone submit.

Edit: For cases where the police officer already is in control.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#124

Post by brigandish » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 5:29 PM UTC

sanguy wrote: post #92

We need Robocop more than ever in this country. Or Judge's like Dredd. No judgement for color, gender, age, or appearance. Just policing based on the facts of the situation and the criminal record of those being policed.

> We need Robocop more than ever in this country. Or Judge's like Dredd.

Both were a satire on fascism, I'm not sure they're the best examples you could find.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#125

Post by leetcrew » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 5:32 PM UTC

quickthrowman wrote: post #103

refurb wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

”Most arrests involve possessing or attempting to sell amounts over the legal limit of 30 grams. I mean, they are breaking the new marijuana laws. Is this wrong? If I try and make my own moonshine and sell it I’ll go to jail too.

Making your own moonshine can kill people via methanol poisoning. Weed can’t kill you. What’s your point again? Hundreds of thousands of pounds of weed are sold via the black market every year, yet nobody dies[0]. You could also never be caught for moonshining, I know drug dealers who have sold for years without any police contact. [0] People died from consuming THC carts that were tainted with Vitamin E acetate. Oth…

> People died from consuming THC carts that were tainted with Vitamin E acetate. Otherwise, weed products have not killed anyone ever.

there are also concerns about microbial contamination with weed that is improperly grown/processed. this is exactly why weed ought to be legal but regulated. people engaged in grey market sales are performing an end run around the new safety regulations.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#126

Post by yaml-ops-guy » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 5:33 PM UTC

bluecatswim wrote: post #115

yaml-ops-guy wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn’t possibly be a confluence of all the above? Not even in the tiniest degree?

"Largest factor" implies there are others as well.

Ah ok, perhaps I fixated on the curt "I disagree", for a moment too long.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#127

Post by throwaway1090 » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

AtNightWeCode wrote: post #17

Good for Newark! But, from what I understand, they gave the cops better training and got better result. That is how education works.

In addition to education, as per the article, "They hired more Black and brown officers" ; "required any officer who uses force in any way to report it in detail, and for the supervisor to review it". Resulting in "The bad cops were suddenly outed."

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#128

Post by dang » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 5:42 PM UTC

evgen wrote: post #10

cdot2 wrote: post #3

While the crime rate has been going down since 2013, Newark still has a murder rate of 57 per 100,000 while the US average is 5 per 100,000. Perhaps their policing model should not be copied. http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Newark-New-Jersey.html#

This is the most pathetic attempt to lie with statistics I have seen all week, congrats! JFC, can you not even be bothered to read the stat you tried to pick to prove your point? The rate according to data you provided was 20.3/100k. The murder rate is proportional to population density across the country as a general rule, so the 'US average' is a bullshit stat to try to use for comparison with a large city. If you…

Reacting with this kind of attack and breaking the site guidelines this badly is not cool. It destroys the commons and discredits your argument. Supposing your argument to be correct, that is particularly bad, because now you're discrediting the very truth you're advocating for (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...). Not only does that not help, it causes harm. If you're in possession of more of the truth than others, you have a responsibility to handle it better. On this site, that means responding to inaccurate information with better information and explaining why it's better without attacks, swipes, or putdowns. Here's one edit that takes all of that out of your comment:

The rate according to data you provided was 20.3/100k. The murder rate is proportional to population density across the country as a general rule, so the 'US average' is a misleading stat to try to use for comparison with a large city. If you compare Newark to its own past rates they are currently at a rate that was last seen in the 60s (this period of low homicide and crime rates was present _before_ covid). While the general trend in large US cities is downward, Newark started from a higher rate and has dropped significantly faster than comparable cities.

That would have been a fine post, much more effective in persuading readers, and without provoking the tedious off-topic flamewar that we got below. Would you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the intended spirit of the site? We'd appreciate it.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#129

Post by bitexploder » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 5:51 PM UTC

nobodyandproud wrote: post #123

bitexploder wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My BJJ gym offers deep discount to police. This is a good thing. I’ve rolled with many police fresh to grappling and even with my limited skills they are very easy to subdue. No wonder they resort to weapons (lethal and less than lethal) so quickly. I have been training a few years now.

Judo (the mother of bjj) is seeing a revival in police circles. It’s good to see grappling arts make a comeback, as there are plenty of non-lethal ways to make someone submit. Edit: For cases where the police officer already is in control.

I think American wrestling and or BJJ are much more practical than Judo as a martial art for police, but Judo is better than nothing. Judo is good for getting things to the ground, but the ground system of Judo is inadequate for many situations. (I’ve trained Judo and with many judokas, even advanced ones just aren’t very good on the ground without some other ground fighting system). Regardless it’s a big step in the right direction.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#130

Post by stadium » Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 5:51 PM UTC

OJFord wrote: post #110

stadium wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The police don't get to decide who committed a crime, the judicial system does. Yours is the same argument that George Floyd deserved what he got because he was a criminal. Being arrested or frisked by police does not a criminal make. Conviction does. It's a duck.

It seems oddly philosophical to suggest that a crime hasn't been committed until its would-be committor has been convicted... Regardless of what you want to call it in the time between the event later deemed criminal, and the sentencing, surely you see that that's what GP was referring to? That there may be differences in demography of 'who is involved in these events'.

It's not philosophical, it's the law. And GP dismisses the overwhelmingly higher rates of arrests for non whites as not being a systemic racism issue and assumes that white people commit fewer crimes with no data to back it up.

> If we are overly fixated

Sorry but that is gaslighting and victim blaming. Tell the parent of a black teenager to not be overly fixated on police reform.