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Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

nj.com

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Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#91

Post by tootie »

School-Cotton wrote: post #25
tootie wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not causation. Crime rates are up nationwide. NYC is seeing a spike too and we've got the most expensive police force in the world. More likely the pandemic is to blame.

> More likely the pandemic is to blame. You mean the response to the pandemic, not the pandemic itself.

Probably both. 550K people are gone and we are likely experiencing a peak in fear, grief and despair. But business and school closures are probably not helping. And given the prevalence of domestic violence, quarantine is probably prison for some percentage of people.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#93

Post by no_wizard »

WandOfALeftFoot wrote: post #85
oivey wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s similar to the BBC blocking non-UK streamers.

The BBC is not free though.

Neither is PBS. It’s funded through grants, donations and government funding via the Corporation for Public Broadcasting[0]

[0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation_for_Public_Broad...

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#94

Post by bonestamp2 »

lostlogin wrote: post #24

The story describes positive change and this is good. However the detail is rather dark. “On Jan. 1, a Newark officer fatally shot Carl Dorsey III, of South Orange, during a confrontation in the South Ward, a case that’s being investigated by Attorney General” The link there says that officers arrived on Jan 1 2021 at 12:03am. So 3 minutes after 2020 they shot someone dead. https://www.nj.com/essex/2021/01/nj-protest…

Fair enough, so let's say it was 1 shooting. Based on that incident, it sounds like that's still 1 too many, but is it an improvement over previous years?

I can't find any stats on that, here's the department's site for this year though: https://npd.newarkpublicsafety.org/statistics/transparency

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#95

Post by stadium »

sanguy wrote: post #92

We need Robocop more than ever in this country. Or Judge's like Dredd. No judgement for color, gender, age, or appearance. Just policing based on the facts of the situation and the criminal record of those being policed.

> criminal record of those being policed

What if there is bias in the criminal record? This ignores the idea of rehabilitation and assumes that one crime, one bad decision, makes someone a criminal for life.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#96

Post by commentingbadly »

imwillofficial wrote: post #36
bananabiscuit wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check the demographics, white people make up only about one third of the population in Newark.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good narrative. https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-...

Is there a Goodwin's Law for citing FBI statistics yet?

Why doesn't the FBI calculate this by income?

And just so you know, probably about 50% of people that read you citing the FBI statistics will think you are a hardcore racist. I'm not calling you a racist, but I'm letting you know how hard everyone rolls their eyes when you post something like this.

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/despite-being-only-13-percent...

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#97

Post by chitowneats »

wolverine876 wrote: post #89
helloworld11 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Newark PD still arrests Black people at a much much higher rate than white people. And if it's the case that people in the city's black community are committing arrestable offenses (however stupid some definitions of what is an offense for which you can be arrested and charged with for are), then what should the department do? Not arrest people for doing things it's been ordered to arrest people for doing just becau…

> if There is a lot of evidence, that is easy to find, that laws criminalize African-Americans (e.g., drugs abused by poor African-Americans are criminal and result in prison; those abused by wealthy white people are sicknesses and result in treatment); that police harass and are brutal toward them (e.g., driving while black, predictive policing, and all the well-documented brutality and racism), and that prosecutors…

You must be referring to the crack/cocaine sentencing distinction. That policy was rectified many years ago. Besides that, you're incorrect that black and white Americans consume "different drugs". I would argue that your argument is also "decades old". And the way in which you suggest that issues of race and crime in America are settled, or that we've "learned" the right answer, suggests that you believe people on the other side of this issue are somehow remedial. Surely you see how this can be an obstacle to convincing them you are correct.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#98

Post by seneca »

js2 wrote: post #21
elil17 wrote: post #13

I think this only addresses half of what's wrong with Newark PD. Newark still spends about a third of it's city budget on police, at the expense of essential services like infrastructure and education. Newark PD still arrests Black people at a much much higher rate than white people. The disparity of arrest rates is even greater when it comes to drug possession.

I was surprised to learn that overall, the U.S. spends about 0.8% of GDP on policing, which places it in about the middle of OECD countries. https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/how-police-compare-differen... Budget seems like the least of our problems in fixing U.S. policing, though I recognize in some cities it may be more of a problem than others. The biggest problem seems to be the huge amount of resistance from poli…

> The biggest problem seems to be the huge amount of resistance from police to any change at all.

A huge problem is the massive, and influential, police union. Police resisting change at an individual or local level is one thing, but their union is a huge coordinated lobby that works against anything that would be better for the public if they perceive it as even slightly unfavorable to police.

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#99

Post by helloworld11 »

commentingbadly wrote: post #46
helloworld11 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Newark PD still arrests Black people at a much much higher rate than white people. And if it's the case that people in the city's black community are committing arrestable offenses (however stupid some definitions of what is an offense for which you can be arrested and charged with for are), then what should the department do? Not arrest people for doing things it's been ordered to arrest people for doing just becau…

What a disgusting and false comment https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/09/29/fac... - Rates of white-on-white and Black-on-Black homicide are similar, at around 80% and 90% - Rates of Black-on-white and white-on-Black homicide also within 8 points - Police kill Black people at disproportionate rates

Please do tell me what's "disgusting" about mentioning a statistical fact? Feel free to look at the FBI's uniform crime statistics, among others and see what I mean. Ideological considerations only make progress harder when they blatantly try to ignore realities. As for your claim that police disproportionately kill black people, well, actually it's a bit more complicated than that and doesn't quite negate what I mentioned above about crime stats. Every unjustifiable death of a black individual or anyone at the hands of the police is a tragedy and a probabl crime that needs to be addressed, but here, read these if you like, for additional perspective: https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/06/11/opinion/statistical-p...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myth-of-systemic-police-rac...

Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020

#100

Post by Rebelgecko »

commentingbadly wrote: post #83
Rebelgecko wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the article uses an odd way to frame it. To me, a rate should be measured in "people per year" or "people per year normalized by population size". Meanwhile the article is using the word "rate" to refer to what is actually the ratio between two different rates. The FBI stats seem to back up the above commenter (however one would expect policing biases to be reflected in their statistics). If you compare a ran…

> The FBI stats Is there a Goodwin's Law for citing FBI statistics yet? > I'm not sure if the numbers would look different if you used the colloquial definition of 'white' You say you're not sure, but you seem to be suggesting something. Care to say it out loud? > If anything I think that's proof of of institutional racism's impact. I'm guessing the disparity is really just showing income inequality But, you spent th…

>You say you're not sure, but you seem to be suggesting something. Care to say it out loud?

I'm suggesting that the fractions might be different but it's a pain to do that math on my phone's calculator while also referring to pages in a web browser so I won't bother. Feel free to run the numbers if you're so inclined and update me!

>But, you spent the whole post talking about race, but you really think it is income? I'm confused.

I don't think it's controversial to say that racism and classism in the USA are inextricably linked. Sometimes this is even enforced via laws (a common example being the disparity in sentencing guidelines for crack vs other forms of cocaine).

>Is there a Goodwin's Law for citing FBI statistics yet

Don't make bad faith attempts to invoke Godwin's law. I cited FBI statistics because you used them first in your own comment.

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