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Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

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Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#71

Post by foepys »

CameronNemo wrote: post #63
Someone1234 wrote: post #62

I feel like the prices on electric vehicles are starting to become their biggest hurdle (instead of range, availability, or charging which are solved enough). If you're from California or New York, I'm sure $40K starting for this or a Model Y seems complexly within your means, but there's a large chunk of the US (by population AND land) where People love to spam $40K US "average" while entirely ignoring that the aver…

Isn't this short term thinking? That is the upfront cost. What about the total lifetime cost of the vehicle?

People buying cars for $20,000 are generally not people who can invest twice upfront for lower maintenance costs over the next ten years. Being poor (relatively speaking) is expensive, especially when you are financing.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#72

Post by ajross »

mmglr wrote: post #48

The 1st edition is already "sold out". Reserving the AWD Pro S Gradient, a $49,675 car, is $100. So I suspect the 1st edition was around that same reservation cost. Too low. Everyone has $100 laying around. IMO reservations should be 10% msrp so that only serious buyers can make reservations.

Tesla wants $100 to reserve a car, so I'm sure that's why the value was picked. If their buyer backs out and the model is popular, they can always get full price on the car as configured anyway.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#73

Post by idiotsecant »

CameronNemo wrote: post #34
pilingual wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A used Premier Bolt with DC quick charging is a good compromise here. The car software is well done, and while it isn't updated often that just means you can expect less bugs than Tesla's constantly updated software. Downsides to the Bolt include OnStar, 3rd party quick chargers are often broken, and their app is absolute garbage. Other than that I think ~$15k for 200+ miles is amazing.

What I don't think people understand is how quick these batteries can be charged. It is a plug in, get lunch, go to the bathroom, maybe stretch a bit, and get back on the road type of deal. How long does somebody really want to be driving/sitting in a car non-stop?

Just because you can doesn't mean you should. DC high current charging is pretty rough on the expected lifetime of that pack.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#74

Post by toomuchtodo »

ajross wrote: post #69
Someone1234 wrote: post #62

I feel like the prices on electric vehicles are starting to become their biggest hurdle (instead of range, availability, or charging which are solved enough). If you're from California or New York, I'm sure $40K starting for this or a Model Y seems complexly within your means, but there's a large chunk of the US (by population AND land) where People love to spam $40K US "average" while entirely ignoring that the aver…

Actually the market for new sub-$20k vehicles is quite small. Most people with budget concerns buy used. The median new passenger vehicle is something like a $40k minivan or pickup. So these EVs really aren't very far off the mark financially.

Indeed. These EVs will filter down to the used market over time, satiating demand from those not of means to afford a new car.

It's ideal really; those who can buy new eat the depreciation, while those who can't afford new end up with a vehicle that will be able to go hundreds of thousands of miles before end of service life (perhaps with some cosmetic blemishes, but not much more of concern considering powertrain longevity). Not everyone needs a new car, many simply need a reliable car.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#75

Post by diggernet »

codezero wrote: post #12
eropple wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

n=1 of course, but to me Teslas aren't compelling until they 1) are a company I want to support, 2) building a vehicle I want, at 3) a price I want to pay. They fail #1 in a bunch of entertaining ways, they don't make a vehicle that satisfies #2 either in features/size or in the absence of misfeatures like the center console or the quasi-automated car crasher, and they'd have to take a significant haircut to satisfy…

I agree with your points in general, the main reason I don't want a Tesla is that they all look the same to me, across models, years, features, they just have a similar look and it's boring. I wish they also offered a wide range of body modifications to add some flavor and individuality to the car.

As a non-Tesla fan, I think the S has very nice lines. The X and 3 are ugly. As you say, they basically look like the same car, and yet are misproportioned in various ways. My theory is they spent a lot of designer time carefully iterating and refining the S, then fired all the designers. Then for X and 3, simply distorted the S design to wrap around a different car and called it good.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#76

Post by arcticfox »

tpmx wrote: post #17
kbos87 wrote: post #2

What I’m really curious to see is whether or not “electric” is the single killer feature it is often positioned as. Semi-autonomous driving and overall UX are two places that Tesla is just so far ahead. I think other manufacturers will make progress, but they are likely to be slow. Electric is compelling but it’s only a small part of the overall value prop for a lot of buyers.

I think what you're actually describing is the largely fan activist/toy (Yes, Tesla Autopilot is a toy) attitude that's common to a certain kind of Tesla owners. This is embarassing and needs to go so that responsible adults can buy EVs too.

Calling Autopilot a toy seems quite exaggerated to me.

I use Autopilot for ~80% of the miles I drive and I love it. I might think the same about Subaru or Cadillac or whatever if I had those, I'm not sure. But none of them are "toys".

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#77

Post by rorykoehler »

mhh__ wrote: post #56
rorykoehler wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you have a grill when you don’t have any need for it?

That's my point, though, the front doesn't need to be that shape any more, do something else (i.e. what Porsche have done with the Taycan, which just tapers all the way down to the number plate).

Sorry I misunderstood. Of all the recently released cars the Mercedes EQS is the only one that is obviously doing what you complain about.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#78

Post by Someone1234 »

CameronNemo wrote: post #63
Someone1234 wrote: post #62

I feel like the prices on electric vehicles are starting to become their biggest hurdle (instead of range, availability, or charging which are solved enough). If you're from California or New York, I'm sure $40K starting for this or a Model Y seems complexly within your means, but there's a large chunk of the US (by population AND land) where People love to spam $40K US "average" while entirely ignoring that the aver…

Isn't this short term thinking? That is the upfront cost. What about the total lifetime cost of the vehicle?

Gas is down to $3 and electric $12/kWh, with the state now charging electric vehicles higher registration fees yearly to offset the gas tax savings. There's likely small savings every year, but we're talking almost $20K price difference, maybe $12K with federal (and no state) rebate, you aren't going to be breaking even.

Plus fun fact: My insurance would go up a lot with a Model 3 from my current vehicle, 25% more a month. Why? I have no idea, but I'm guessing higher write-off or repair costs.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#79

Post by arcticfox »

jeffrallen wrote: post #22
eropple wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

n=1 of course, but to me Teslas aren't compelling until they 1) are a company I want to support, 2) building a vehicle I want, at 3) a price I want to pay. They fail #1 in a bunch of entertaining ways, they don't make a vehicle that satisfies #2 either in features/size or in the absence of misfeatures like the center console or the quasi-automated car crasher, and they'd have to take a significant haircut to satisfy…

Your reasoning, in my head, lead me to buy a Renault Zoe, and I love it. Electric cars cannot conjuring to be luxury items if we want to convert the fleet. This is something that Tesla gets distracted on and misses: the Model 3 should have cost 50% of what it does (with the compromises to get there). The 3 is like a slightly less ostentatious S, which is a total market miss for me

A total market miss for you, maybe, but it is a total market hit for the actual market as demonstrated in sales figures.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#80

Post by glbrew »

CameronNemo wrote: post #63
Someone1234 wrote: post #62

I feel like the prices on electric vehicles are starting to become their biggest hurdle (instead of range, availability, or charging which are solved enough). If you're from California or New York, I'm sure $40K starting for this or a Model Y seems complexly within your means, but there's a large chunk of the US (by population AND land) where People love to spam $40K US "average" while entirely ignoring that the aver…

Isn't this short term thinking? That is the upfront cost. What about the total lifetime cost of the vehicle?

If anything the lifetime cost of electric deters me. Usually they come with 10 year warranties for the power side of the car, but I kept my last car for 20 years. If I buy electric I assume I essentially need to buy a new car or pay for an expensive overhaul after a decade. So the math is more along the lines of 20k for a gas car that will last for 20 years, or 40k for an electric car that will probably last 10 years. Yes, you save some on energy but probably won't offset total cost difference.
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