Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

abc7.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 650 posts

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#61

Post by CameronNemo »

LeegleechN wrote: post #47
CameronNemo wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I don't think people understand is how quick these batteries can be charged. It is a plug in, get lunch, go to the bathroom, maybe stretch a bit, and get back on the road type of deal. How long does somebody really want to be driving/sitting in a car non-stop?

If your list includes "get lunch" it's not a quick charge. A 1 hour charge time can be planned around but it is still quite constraining.

Meh. If I am driving several hundred miles in a fraction of a day, I am going to be patient and grateful. Doing that on a bike, on horseback, or on foot would be absolutely grueling and take several days or weeks.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#62

Post by Someone1234 »

I feel like the prices on electric vehicles are starting to become their biggest hurdle (instead of range, availability, or charging which are solved enough).

If you're from California or New York, I'm sure $40K starting for this or a Model Y seems complexly within your means, but there's a large chunk of the US (by population AND land) where People love to spam $40K US "average" while entirely ignoring that the average is a highly abusive figure containing $80K+ trucks and luxury vehicles, as well as a few $15-32K vehicles dragging that figure down. It doesn't really reflect anything useful.

Go look at this map[0]. How many of "the most popular car by state" are $40K? Zero. But yet an electric is going to replace a $21K Honda Civic by 2025? Really?

And I'm not dumping on the manufacturers here: From what I understand batteries remain the lion's share of an electric vehicle's total production cost (I've heard as much as $16K/vehicle). So this isn't profiteering, this is the tech not yet being ready price-wise for the mass adoption everyone seems to believe will come soon. Worse still as electric vehicles become more popular the rare earth metals that seemingly remain popular within the batteries may increase in cost offsetting our future reductions.

To be clear: I want to own an electric vehicle. I'd trade my current Subaru Outback ($27K) in tomorrow if I could buy a comparable electric. But those start in the $40K range (and honestly the cheapest trim is just a hero model, they don't intend to sell many, and blackmail buyers with missing basic features accordingly).

[0] https://insurify.com/insights/most-popular-cars-by-state-202...

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#63

Post by CameronNemo »

Someone1234 wrote: post #62

I feel like the prices on electric vehicles are starting to become their biggest hurdle (instead of range, availability, or charging which are solved enough). If you're from California or New York, I'm sure $40K starting for this or a Model Y seems complexly within your means, but there's a large chunk of the US (by population AND land) where People love to spam $40K US "average" while entirely ignoring that the aver…

Isn't this short term thinking? That is the upfront cost. What about the total lifetime cost of the vehicle?

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#65

Post by kingsuper20 »

codezero wrote: post #12
eropple wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

n=1 of course, but to me Teslas aren't compelling until they 1) are a company I want to support, 2) building a vehicle I want, at 3) a price I want to pay. They fail #1 in a bunch of entertaining ways, they don't make a vehicle that satisfies #2 either in features/size or in the absence of misfeatures like the center console or the quasi-automated car crasher, and they'd have to take a significant haircut to satisfy…

I agree with your points in general, the main reason I don't want a Tesla is that they all look the same to me, across models, years, features, they just have a similar look and it's boring. I wish they also offered a wide range of body modifications to add some flavor and individuality to the car.

>I don't want a Tesla is that they all look the same to me,

In my eyes, practically all new cars look the same. The badging is the main way to tell them apart. On the other hand, I can tell a 1967 from a 1968 Camaro (hint: the running lights/turn signals in the grill are round vs. a rounded rectangle on non RS cars).

But they always did. If you come to it with a fresh eye, most cars of a given class/size in any era are pretty similar.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#66

Post by dreamcompiler »

axaxs wrote: post #5

I'm kicking around the idea of an electric car, but the ranges of these things just utterly disappoint me. With some companies offering, or planning to offer 500ish mile ranges, it would feel immediately outdated to me to throw 40k on something with a ~200 mile range. Is battery tech that different between companies, is it cost prohibitive?

VW is pretty far behind Tesla in battery technology.[0] Still, this seems like a good car for a large number of drivers. The VW charging network is building out rapidly (I've noticed that VW's chargers are largely in the same locations as Tesla's superchargers. Wonder why?)

The Tesla Model Y Long Range is rated at 326 miles and in my experience that's accurate and completely practical.

As to your criterion of "500ish" miles, that's unrealistic even for most ICE cars. Granted gas stations are more common than EV charging stations but you also cannot recharge your ICE car at home or at your hotel or at an RV park.

Owning an EV requires a mindset switch; if you approach the EV purchase decision from the ICE mindset and all you see is "OMG the range is too low and what happens if I can't find a charger?" then you're probably not ready for EV ownership. If, OTOH you are able to switch to a mindset where you keep your energy status in the back of your mind (and an EV car helps you with this a great deal) then you might be ready.

For me this mindset switch was easy since I've been RV camping for decades; that's another lifestyle where thinking about such things as energy, water, and waste status are necessary. It's not difficult; it's just different. It requires an awareness that assumptions of infinite sources (of water, energy, etc.) and infinite sinks (for waste disposal) are incorrect, and now you must manage them actively.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx1O4kvjn0U

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#68

Post by foepys »

Someone1234 wrote: post #62

I feel like the prices on electric vehicles are starting to become their biggest hurdle (instead of range, availability, or charging which are solved enough). If you're from California or New York, I'm sure $40K starting for this or a Model Y seems complexly within your means, but there's a large chunk of the US (by population AND land) where People love to spam $40K US "average" while entirely ignoring that the aver…

Not only that, there are entire continents where electric vehicles are simply not feasible. You cannot drive an EV 100km through mud and forests to get to a town just to charge it. Those EVs are not only very heavy and will sink in mud, they turn into bricks when empty. Have fun getting electricity into the jungle. A gas canister can be brought by anybody and filling the car up is quick. So most likely you will be hauling around generators - gas powered of course.

These are problems I don't see discussed anywhere when car manufacturers are claiming to go full EV by 2030.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#69

Post by ajross »

Someone1234 wrote: post #62

I feel like the prices on electric vehicles are starting to become their biggest hurdle (instead of range, availability, or charging which are solved enough). If you're from California or New York, I'm sure $40K starting for this or a Model Y seems complexly within your means, but there's a large chunk of the US (by population AND land) where People love to spam $40K US "average" while entirely ignoring that the aver…

Actually the market for new sub-$20k vehicles is quite small. Most people with budget concerns buy used. The median new passenger vehicle is something like a $40k minivan or pickup. So these EVs really aren't very far off the mark financially.

Re: Volkswagen launches its first all-electric SUV, the ID.4

#70

Post by weehoo »

dhdhhdd wrote: post #25
MrRadar wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How often do you drive that far? The farthest I drive in one go is 350 miles and I only make that trip once every other year because it's exhausting. (If I could fly there I probably would.) A vehicle with a 100 mile range would cover pretty much all the other driving I do regularly.

Funny. I would not fly for a trip of 350 miles. Being at the airport early, going through security, checking in luggage, all of those are unpredictable. Most of the time i leave home 3 hours before scheduled flight, it can take 1 hour to get to the airport (depending on traffic, usually 20 minutes), and then all of the above. 3 hours can get me almost 200 miles away, and then I'm left with 150 miles of driving.

NorCal to SoCal using regional airports (avoid sfo lax etc) can be less than 2 hours door to door. Online check in + no checked bag means you can show up at small airports 30 minutes before takeoff. 50 minutes in the air, 10 minutes to deplane and leave the airport, and less than 15 minutes driving on either end and you have 2 hours door to door (and a lot more leg stretching than driving the 5).
Post reply on HN