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Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

extremetech.com

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Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#31

Post by kmeisthax »

monkmartinez wrote: post #15

You get an M1 with the new iPad Pro as well! I hadn't thought of the situation as the article presents. When shown in that light, it made me pause to reflect. The M1 doesn't make sense when its in every darn product. The only differentiator is screen size, RAM, and OS? I will admit that I switched to Thinkpad and Win10 about two years ago when I had to return my butterfly for the 5th time. I am not looking back eithe…

Apple differentiates the majority of their products by generation rather than binning. If you buy a low-end iPad, you get an A12; the iPad Air steps you up to an A14; and the iPad Pro gets you an M1.

This is less evident on the Macintosh side of the business right now because they're just trying to get M1 silicon into as many product lines as their fab capacity will allow. They don't actually have an M2 (or even M1X) to sell high-end products with yet, which is why they're starting with low-end products first. When they release upgraded chips, they will almost be used to transition the high end models with lower-end product getting it later.

Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#32

Post by ankurdhama »

outside1234 wrote: post #13

x86 is dead - first in consumer, then in cloud. It is hard to see to me how this ends any other way. The creative class (us) will quickly have largely all ARM computers within 4 years. Its not hard to see from there how software will be even more optimized for ARM variants than x86 and that the scale of both mobile and consumer computing will push x86 out of the datacenter slowly as old software that relies on x86 is…

Only if I can buy a desktop/laptop with a powerful ARM processor and plug-in a bootable usb and install operating system (arm version) of my choice with all drivers etc working fine.

Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#33

Post by inasio »

Assuming the M1 performance extrapolates to desktop power/cooling it's going to be a monster chip. If that is the case I think apple will not stop at having the fastest watch/phone/tablet/laptop/PC. Why not go after the datacenter and leave money (a ton of money) on the table?

Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#34

Post by ankurdhama »

jareklupinski wrote: post #28
smiley1437 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there examples of Arm designs OTHER than the M1 which are suitable for consumers? Yes, the M1 is a remarkable product and it will certainly make inroads against x86 on the desktop but it is from a single company. Will Apple M1 (2, 3 etc) replace all x86 devices in a decade? That’s hard to swallow. Now, if we see another Arm product released that ALSO kicks x86 butt, from another player, then maybe I’d believe a c…

if you are not using an apple phone, your smartphone likely uses an ARM-licensed chip, and chromebooks/windows RT devices ran ARM cores the only thing holding back wider adoption is legacy x86 software

The smartphone ARM and chromebook ARM processors are nowhere near the M1 or x86 CPU in terms of performance. You need an M1 kind performance in these devices outside of Apple.

Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#35

Post by selcuka »

smiley1437 wrote: post #27
outside1234 wrote: post #13

x86 is dead - first in consumer, then in cloud. It is hard to see to me how this ends any other way. The creative class (us) will quickly have largely all ARM computers within 4 years. Its not hard to see from there how software will be even more optimized for ARM variants than x86 and that the scale of both mobile and consumer computing will push x86 out of the datacenter slowly as old software that relies on x86 is…

Are there examples of Arm designs OTHER than the M1 which are suitable for consumers? Yes, the M1 is a remarkable product and it will certainly make inroads against x86 on the desktop but it is from a single company. Will Apple M1 (2, 3 etc) replace all x86 devices in a decade? That’s hard to swallow. Now, if we see another Arm product released that ALSO kicks x86 butt, from another player, then maybe I’d believe a c…

Qualcomm is also entering the laptop segment with its 8cx platform [1]. While not a serious contender to M1 yet, it is comparable to an Intel i5 [2].

Samsung is also planning to release an Exynos laptop [3].

[1] https://www.qualcomm.com/products/snapdragon-8cx-gen-2-5g-co...

[2] https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/snapdragon-8cx-vs-co...

[3] https://www.engadget.com/samsung-exynos-amd-2200-windows-10-...

Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#36

Post by incanus77 »

nerfhammer wrote: post #29
outside1234 wrote: post #13

x86 is dead - first in consumer, then in cloud. It is hard to see to me how this ends any other way. The creative class (us) will quickly have largely all ARM computers within 4 years. Its not hard to see from there how software will be even more optimized for ARM variants than x86 and that the scale of both mobile and consumer computing will push x86 out of the datacenter slowly as old software that relies on x86 is…

waiting for the gaming console announcement

Uh, Nintendo Switch?

Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#37

Post by dev_tty01 »

phendrenad2 wrote: post #2

I think Apple will keep selling x86 Macs forever. For heavy-duty workstation workloads, M1 just doesn't cut it.

Hmm. Sure, M1 isn't suited for heavy workstation loads. They didn't target that sector yet. What's your point?

This is not the last processor they will do. Have you been watching the massive year over year performance gains Apple has been making for several years? There will be an M2 and an M3, and ....

Given the performance AND energy beating they are putting on the market sector that they targeted with M1, why is there any reason to believe they won't kill the high-end workstation sector when they target that?

Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#38

Post by plywoodtrees »

jamesmcintyre wrote: post #6
phendrenad2 wrote: post #2

I think Apple will keep selling x86 Macs forever. For heavy-duty workstation workloads, M1 just doesn't cut it.

Why should Apple care if a small portion of its product lineup will still rely on Intel/AMD? Why shouldn't they put pressure on these chipmakers to defend their position. They have both the vertical integration and scale to push entire industries to innovate. If this serves to “wake up” Intel we all benefit (including Intel). Look into xscale and its relationship to the original iPhone circa 2006-2007, that didn't wa…

Because of the cost of continuing to maintain software for that small fraction of the user base. Not only the core OS but the toolchain, and all their first party apps. And the difficulty of incentivizing and enabling third party developers to continue to support x86.

Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#39

Post by dev_tty01 »

GoOnThenDoTell wrote: post #4
danaris wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...And you think there'll never be an M2? Or M1X, or whatever branding Apple decides to put on their 32/64/128/???-core version that supports terabytes of RAM?

Until they publicly show they can make such a thing, there will be some scepticism

Why? Apple just demonstrated that they could do something that had previously been considered unrealistic. They've also been demonstrating massive annual performance gains for many years. For people who have been watching closely, they should have some credibility by now.

Re: Apple’s M1 Positioning Mocks the Entire x86 Business Model

#40

Post by cptskippy »

monkmartinez wrote: post #20
outside1234 wrote: post #13

x86 is dead - first in consumer, then in cloud. It is hard to see to me how this ends any other way. The creative class (us) will quickly have largely all ARM computers within 4 years. Its not hard to see from there how software will be even more optimized for ARM variants than x86 and that the scale of both mobile and consumer computing will push x86 out of the datacenter slowly as old software that relies on x86 is…

Creative class is a lot more than programmers. Look at boutique system integrators like Puget Systems... do you see Apple/ARM Hardware? Heck no you don't! These guys sell hardware to a LOT of the companies that comprise the credits in movie production, game production, laboratories, university science departments, ML researchers, big energy, and soooooo much more. These guys are not rewriting their software stack for…

> Creative class is a lot more than programmers.

I'm not sure anyone thinks programmers when they think creative class. That's like saying the professional athlete class is a lot more than just Pokemon Go players...

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