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The culture war is killing us [video]

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Re: The culture war is killing us [video]

#41

Post by pmoriarty »

forgingahead wrote: post #35
pmoriarty wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We have objective evidence of severe legislative polarization at the federal level going back to the 1980s" Political divisiveness in the US goes back much further than that. In the "you think it's bad now" department, I remember reading about the case of, I think it was in the 1800's, of a congressman assaulting another congressman with a cane over some political issue. Of course the most infamous case of political…

I remember reading about the case of, I think it was in the 1800's, of a congressman assaulting another congressman with a cane over some political issue. This was the Caning of Charles Sumner: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caning_of_Charles_Sumner And yes, you and the grandparent comment are exactly right - this has been going on for ages, precisely because the economic incentives of media have been to create strife…

"imagine the reaction from their advertising customers"

Imagine the reaction from their viewers!

The sad fact of the matter is that the media strategy you describe would be worthless if the viewers didn't lap it up and ask for more.

The media's just giving most viewers what they want.

Re: The culture war is killing us [video]

#42

Post by mtc010170 »

ausbah wrote: post #37

I very much dislike media like this that tries to reduce polarization by "presenting both sides" because, at least on its face, falsely presents "both sides" as "equally valid" when that just isn't true there are positions like trans rights, voting restrictions, climate change, etc. that don't have "equally valid perspectives" from both sides - and treating like such is foolish I know attitude doesn't help the proble…

Hmmm. While I likely agree with you on many of the issues you’re highlighting.. what your response highlights more is exactly what the hosts are identifying as the real problem. Which is kind of ironic.

Re: The culture war is killing us [video]

#43

Post by barbacoa »

pmoriarty wrote: post #33
Consultant32452 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A decade ago the activists were occupying Wall Street. Now they’re all aligned with the mega corps and the fighting is about semantics of how we say that lives matter. I believe this was deliberate. That doesn’t mean I necessarily believe some evil people twirled their mustaches to plot evil in secret, but is rather the result of many organizations working unison towards common goals without the necessity of central…

"A decade ago the activists were occupying Wall Street. Now they’re all aligned with the mega corps and the fighting is about semantics of how we say that lives matter" Completely different issues. They are aligned against discrimination, but divided on economic inequality.

It the same issue but with a slight of hand to shift blame.

There is a sentiment that at a macro level the economic system is geared to advantage those at the top.

What I see mega corps are doing now is try to shift that frustration from a discussion of class to a discussion of race.

Suddenly the white working class outside of major economic centers, the same ones who have seen their economic prospects erode over a generation due to deindustrialization can be painted as the villain and racists.

Re: The culture war is killing us [video]

#44

Post by Pfhreak »

pmoriarty wrote: post #36
Pfhreak wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The civil rights was full of people begging for unity, and asking Black leaders to just calm down and wait. All the calls for calm today are exactly the calls for calm they've always been in America -- calls from folks who are not suffering to those who are to just deal with it. In my opinion, calling for unity and calling for calm are dismissive of very real concerns people have.

"All the calls for calm today are exactly the calls for calm they've always been in America -- calls from folks who are not suffering to those who are to just deal with it." Martin Luther King Jr. and the rest of the non-violent Civil Rights movement during the 1960's were calling for calm as they were being beaten, firehosed, attacked with dogs, imprisoned, assasinated and lynched. So I guess you must think they did…

King did not call for calm, in fact often the opposite. Here's a quote from him:

“Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks so to dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored. . . . I must confess that I am not afraid of the word ‘tension.’”

King was non-violent, but he did not avoid conflict. King regularly called on people to break laws because they were unjust. He specifically called for increasing tensions. And he was called an 'agitator'. He specifically chose not to condemn riots:

“But it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention. And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard.”

And he famously objected to calls for calm and order:

“I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice”

Edit: Removed my judgement of the parent poster's understanding of King from the comment.

Re: The culture war is killing us [video]

#45

Post by throwawayboise »

BuyMyBitcoins wrote: post #19
GingerMidas wrote: post #8

A FPTP two party system almost necessitates culture war, since by definition if you're for one party you're against the other. At the end of the day you're forced to pick a side. The anchors are suggesting you ignore that eventuality.

I think moving away from First Past the Post voting systems is a good thing, but it is not the panacea people are hoping it will be. Just because people can vote for viable third parties does not mean that polarization will go down. It’s possible that more parties may increase divisions.

But if no party has the majority, they will be forced to form coalitions on issues to get anything done. As it is now, whatever congress does is basically up to one person, the majority leader/speaker.

Re: The culture war is killing us [video]

#46

Post by nradov »

salimmadjd wrote: post #7

Have many of us have become the useful idiots of the corporate media overloads? I know it's fashionable to blame Facebook for the divisiveness, but I'm old enough to recall Obama's 2004 DNC speech that got him his first national attention. Before there was Facebook, Obama was talking about divisiveness. I firmly believe anger and anxiety is constantly injected into the mainstream corporate media to increase eyeballs…

It's well known that foreign intelligence services are active on social media trying to foment divisiveness. They're not even necessarily pushing a specific political goal, just getting Americans to hate each other. The Russians appear to be the most active but other countries play the same game. So before you get drawn into an online argument, ask yourself am I dealing with an authentic person or a paid foreign troll?

This isn't even a new phenomenon. Back during the Cold War before there was a real Internet the Soviet intelligence services did similar things by infiltrating political action groups and paying off journalists to write stories calculated to stoke dissent.

Re: The culture war is killing us [video]

#47

Post by [deleted] »

salimmadjd wrote: post #7

Have many of us have become the useful idiots of the corporate media overloads? I know it's fashionable to blame Facebook for the divisiveness, but I'm old enough to recall Obama's 2004 DNC speech that got him his first national attention. Before there was Facebook, Obama was talking about divisiveness. I firmly believe anger and anxiety is constantly injected into the mainstream corporate media to increase eyeballs…

[deleted]

Re: The culture war is killing us [video]

#48

Post by bluefirebrand »

maroonblazer wrote: post #40

I'm surprised income and wealth inequality didn't enter into the discussion. That seems like a significant contributing factor to sectarianism and the culture wars. Economic dividends concentrated in a smaller group coupled with technology that is accessible to everyone and amplifies the differences between the two groups seems to portend a bad outcome.

It's not popular to point out, but a lot of the divisiveness is designed to keep wealth inequality from ever really being talked about. It's to keep the lower classes fighting each other over less important stuff, sometimes downright silly stuff.

Re: The culture war is killing us [video]

#50

Post by 1cvmask »

motohagiography wrote: post #17

I don't know if there a good way to add value and insight to this topic because even insight is going to be zero sum and partisan, but here's a shot. Sectarianism is something I've talked to acquaintences about for a few years, as I was thinking about how to make predictions on how current events were playing out, and the precdents I thought would be useful as a model to anticipate were an environment like the Troubl…

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