Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn • Hacker News Board

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#41

Post by LargeWu » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 1:30 PM UTC

pen2l wrote: post #6

1cvmask wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s funny that they are downvoting you for stating the obvious no-brainer explanation. Just curious as I am seeing more of this on HN lately or is it just the Baader Meinhof phenomenon after I read someone else complain about the recent downvoting phenomenon for stating the obvious. Has the readership changed of HN or more specifically the commentariat?

It wasn't really my take or opinion, I rather recalled it being cited as the reason by Foxconn itself in multiple instances. Also, I'm from Wisconsin, and an old EECS professor explained this to be the reason from his first-hand knowledge of some conversations with Foxconn. Here is one citation I was able to find quickly: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-foxconn-wisconsin-exclusi... He said the company was still ev…

The alternative is that Foxconn is lying, and they never had any intention of actually opening the factory, which I think is a far more likely explanation.

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#42

Post by CydeWeys » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 1:30 PM UTC

iainmerrick wrote: post #31

Semaphor wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Has the readership changed of HN or more specifically the commentariat? My personal impression is, that it got a lot worse since Covid, which I attribute to more people doing home office and/or having more free time. Any discussion forum that grows gets worse. But both my impressions and the 2nd part might be wrong.

Any discussion forum that grows gets worse. Huh! I hadn’t thought about it in such stark terms before, and I’d like to disagree, but there may be something in that. Is that an original thought, or did you get it from somewhere? It sounds like something that should be an eponymous law.

Eternal September.

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#43

Post by MomoXenosaga » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 1:31 PM UTC

Invictus0 wrote: post #2

Can someone explain to me why Foxconn didn't build the plant? Why would they go through the trouble of negotiating this deal, which ended up phenomenally in their favor, just to throw their hands in the air and walk away?

Realized Americans don't want to live in factory compounds for 10 months doing repetitive labour.

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#44

Post by waterheater » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 1:31 PM UTC

Do not trust Foxconn. I strongly believe they're playing a long-term game here.

For example, the Foxconn plant is on a particular tract of land only partially within the Lake Michigan watershed. Anyone living within the watershed must return their water, and it must be cleaned up first. My understanding of the Great Lakes Compact is that Foxconn's land is one of legal ambiguity, that they may draw from Lake Michigan but not return it. I sure hope it doesn't mean they can bottle up Lake Michigan water and ship it elsewhere, but water is set to be more valuable than oil, so I bet they're playing it strategically.

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#45

Post by Invictus0 » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 1:32 PM UTC

luckylion wrote: post #4

Is it just me or has it become more common for journalists to write about decreases by saying "X-fold" or "x times"? I always get confused, I find it much easier to say "by 97%".

It's terribly confusing. I made this graph to show why: https://i.imgur.com/7wYWWfs.png

Fold decreases are parabolic, fold increases are linear.

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#46

Post by mbesto » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 1:34 PM UTC

No one saw this coming.

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#47

Post by MomoXenosaga » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 1:36 PM UTC

AlexandrB wrote: post #13

pen2l wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a nutshell, it mistook the nature of labor folks are used to here and its costs. Indeed wildly different from China and elsewhere.

This is a take that's wildly generous to FoxConn, painting them as the "aww schucks" kinda honest guys that just didn't know about the challenges of the US labor market. The alternate take is that the whole deal was made in bad faith and FoxConn was hoping to collect subsidies and line its pockets. This version of events has some precedent[1]. It's especially hard to believe that FoxConn didn't know about US labor wh…

You know what's bad faith? Politicians bullshitting that these kind of factory jobs are ever going to come back.

My smartphone will never be assembled in the US or Germany.

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#48

Post by jfb » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 1:36 PM UTC

Loughla wrote: post #14

AlexandrB wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a take that's wildly generous to FoxConn, painting them as the "aww schucks" kinda honest guys that just didn't know about the challenges of the US labor market. The alternate take is that the whole deal was made in bad faith and FoxConn was hoping to collect subsidies and line its pockets. This version of events has some precedent[1]. It's especially hard to believe that FoxConn didn't know about US labor wh…

You're 100% spot on. I cannot be convinced a multi-national mega-corp is ignorant of US labor and the challenges in the US labor market. There just is no way that's possible for a company this size, or am I wrong? So that leaves either bad faith, or they are just abjectly incompetent. I can't really see any other options. Or, again, am I way off base?

I mean, it was bullshit from jump street, but if Wisconsin had poured (more) money into Foxconn's pockets, I'm sure they'd have been happy to put something up.

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#49

Post by ThaDood » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 1:38 PM UTC

waterheater wrote: post #44

Do not trust Foxconn. I strongly believe they're playing a long-term game here. For example, the Foxconn plant is on a particular tract of land only partially within the Lake Michigan watershed. Anyone living within the watershed must return their water, and it must be cleaned up first. My understanding of the Great Lakes Compact is that Foxconn's land is one of legal ambiguity, that they may draw from Lake Michigan…

Not to be a naysayer, but do you have any sort of evidence to substantiate this claim? Any evidence of exceptions to laws regarding the usage of the watershed and lake with specific regards to Foxconn? Or any kind of indication that a bottling facility will be built up?

Re: Wisconsin has negotiated a dramatically scaled-back deal with Foxconn

#50

Post by api » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 1:39 PM UTC

billyhoffman wrote: post #36

KingOfCoders wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It helped Trump, mission accomplished.

Did it? His “8th wonder of the world nonsense” was after he was elected in 2017, and Trump then lost Wisconsin in 2020

Exactly. People like Trump have careers that resemble repeatedly pumped-and-dumped penny stocks. They rise and fall, rise and fall, rise and fall.

Basically what they do is build themselves up through something like a social capital pyramid scheme. This eventually collapses when there are no greater fools and when all their promises fail, but the good ones already have the next grift in progress before the first one collapses.

Trump is truly one of the greats at this. Not only does he do this very well but he builds the next grift off the previous one. He's IMHO the world's premier expert in "failing up."