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Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

ethereumcashflow.com

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Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#251

Post by matheusmoreira »

rideontime wrote: post #246
matheusmoreira wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Crypto would have zero value if normal people weren’t scared and distrustful. That implies cryptocurrencies provide no value by themselves and is simply false. Ethereum is essentially a distributed virtual machine that anyone can pay to use. Monero offers complete financial privacy.

What sort of operations are people running on the Ethereum VM?

Currently the smart contract software projects are focused on decentralized finance since the only input necessary for that is ETH currency. New tokens, decentralized exchanges and so on.

People created Chainlink to bring real world data inputs to Ethereum software. Data such as "package has arrived to its destination". It hasn't delivered on its promise yet unfortunately. If it ever does, all bets will be off.

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#252

Post by matheusmoreira »

brazzy wrote: post #250
matheusmoreira wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Crypto would have zero value if normal people weren’t scared and distrustful. That implies cryptocurrencies provide no value by themselves and is simply false. Ethereum is essentially a distributed virtual machine that anyone can pay to use. Monero offers complete financial privacy.

>Ethereum is essentially a distributed virtual machine that anyone can pay to use. ...that is unbelievably slow, limited, difficult to use, and makes it impossible to fix bugs. It's absolutely fascinating in principle, yes. But in practice it's a solution in search of a problem.

> that is unbelievably slow, inefficient, and makes it impossible to fix bugs

I don't dispute that. The real innovation lies in the decentralization. Unfortunately, decentralization is threatened by centralized mining operations who resist changes to the network such as migration to proof of stake. Bitcoin also suffers from the same problem with miners effectively controlling the protocol and as a result the coin has remained static for a long time.

Monero seems to be having success avoiding the influence of miners. They adopted ASIC and GPU resistant algorithms which makes it viable to mine XMR on normal CPUs, allowing more people to participate and as a result making the coin more decentralized.

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#253

Post by ObserverNeutral »

CryptoPunk wrote: post #245
ObserverNeutral wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bitcoin is open source Bitcoin is open source, all right. But the first mover advantage and marketing campaign that it has...well it's insurmountable at this point. > Problem is that is still centralized The world doesn't give a damn about that. The only killer app of decentralization as of today is the ability to give people peace of mind that the unit of account they use to store their wealth cannot be tempered w…

>>The only killer app of decentralization as of today is the ability to give people peace of mind that the unit of account they use to store their wealth cannot be tempered with by anybody. Being able to use a tamper-proof currency in financial applications that are decentralized means one's holdings of that currency remain tamper-proof even when they are employing them in financial applications. That is the value th…

> financial applications

Legacy financial applications are fine. People who are afraid of inflation just convert BTC>USD the sole amount they need to use the financial application and that's it.

Also DeFi apps are very illiquid and extremely complicated to use.

Finally let's not hide the truth: 99% of financial apps are based on loans. Crypto loans are doomed because people don't want to borrow crypto as they anticipate huge appreciation and such appreciation would leave them in a hole financially speaking.

Also without an identity system a borrower can just steal crypto, and never pay back interest or principal

Also the lender requires high interest to separate themselves from their crypto considering how novel is the system and how frequent hacks and as I said people outright fleeing are.

The most successful crypto loans are the ones denominated in USD and happening on centralized platforms (and those crypto never leave the platform as they are used to short)

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#254

Post by jl2718 »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #212
jl2718 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a simplistic view of “the little guy”. The dollar system is set up such that they have to ‘invest’ or else they will never be able to afford a house. Savings will bankrupt them. Stocks are meaningless, just handing your money to rich people that will never give it back in hopes that you can sell it for more later. But the whole system looks like it’s in free fall, so that doesn’t seem likely. Crypto woul…

> Crypto would have zero value if normal people weren’t scared and distrustful. That implies cryptocurrencies provide no value by themselves and is simply false. Ethereum is essentially a distributed virtual machine that anyone can pay to use. Monero offers complete financial privacy.

I’ll be the first one to say that crypto is often the superior system. But only due to the threat. A threat I happen to believe is very dangerous. Any security model only has value in the presence of a threat model. Other than that it’s just inefficient.

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#255

Post by izolate »

CryptoPunk wrote: post #238
Animats wrote: post #236

Did Etherium actually switch to proof of stake? That's been talked up for years, but has been delayed several times. The original date was January 2020, but as of now, I can't find a firm date. One Etherium page intended to get people to lock up ETH to stake the system says "Withdrawals won't be live right away. You won't be able to withdraw your stake until future upgrades are deployed. Withdrawals should be availab…

Calling it 'Etherium' to provoke Ethereum advocates is completely inappropriate as per HN rules.

So is assuming bad faith against HN rules. Etherium seems like an innocent error.

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#256

Post by Paradigma11 »

Paradigma11 wrote: post #189
asenna wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will actually not be going to the Ethereum staker, the "base-fee" is going to be burned (removed from supply) and no one gets it, that's what EIP-1559 does (expected to arrive in the July London hard-fork) To add to this, the overall issuance of ETH yearly is going to reduce from about ~ 4+ Million ETH in the PoW model to about ~ 1.x Million ETH in the PoS model, because the PoS security does not require as much i…

You can only burn a little since: 1.)If you burn too much the whole pricing and ordering mechanism for operations does not work any more. Burning is only going to lead to big players in mining/staking and consumers making direct side arrangements. 2.) There is less incentive to stake since burning benefits all regardless if you stake or not. Its essentially a stock buyback. But sure you still have the inflationary bl…

"But sure you still have the inflationary block generation as rewards." To be more precise: You are still penalized by dilution/inflation if you dont stake.

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#257

Post by matheusmoreira »

jl2718 wrote: post #254
matheusmoreira wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Crypto would have zero value if normal people weren’t scared and distrustful. That implies cryptocurrencies provide no value by themselves and is simply false. Ethereum is essentially a distributed virtual machine that anyone can pay to use. Monero offers complete financial privacy.

I’ll be the first one to say that crypto is often the superior system. But only due to the threat. A threat I happen to believe is very dangerous. Any security model only has value in the presence of a threat model. Other than that it’s just inefficient.

Indeed. The threat is real and will continue to be real for as long as governments exist. Maybe the threat is centralized authorities in general.

My country experienced runaway inflation in the 1990s. In a desperate attempt to stop it, the president just froze everyone's bank accounts. The government took away everyone's money out of nowhere. So I don't really care how much energy cryptocurrency consumes. If it puts an end to government stupidity it's worth it. The more they hate cryptocurrency the better -- it means they can't control it.

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#258

Post by lottin »

ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #234
lottin wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, that's not how it works. The governments runs an auction where the bonds are sold to investors. That sets the market rate. The government would not buy its own bonds in the auction (it wouldn't make sense) and cannot force investors to buy the bonds at a particular rate.

In Europe, the government does buy its own bonds. Via the central bank. They print the money. Hold it for a few days. Then buy government bonds with it. Read what the european central bank (ECB) writes about it: https://www.ecb.europa.eu/pub/pdf/scpwps/ecbwp1956.en.pdf https://www.ecb.europa.eu/mopo/implement/pepp/html/index.en.... Search for "government bonds" in these papers.

The central bank buys bonds in the secondary market, and any effect on the risk premium is only indirect (investors perceive the bonds as being safer). This is completely different from the government "dictating the risk premium". The risk premium is the spread deemed necessary by the market to compensate for credit risk, and as such it can't be dictated by anyone.

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#259

Post by throwaway_isms »

rideontime wrote: post #246
matheusmoreira wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Crypto would have zero value if normal people weren’t scared and distrustful. That implies cryptocurrencies provide no value by themselves and is simply false. Ethereum is essentially a distributed virtual machine that anyone can pay to use. Monero offers complete financial privacy.

What sort of operations are people running on the Ethereum VM?

I have multiple decentralized websites and even a search engine on IPFS (the p2p web3 protocol)

Re: Ethereum: A Store of Value with Cash Flow [pdf]

#260

Post by throwaway_isms »

rmah wrote: post #229
anonymouse008 wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's just greed, plain and simple. Seeing someone pay off their student loans or their credit cards on an income similar or lower than yours by “investing” in a ICO at the right time and trying to find the next opportunity is greed to you? I’d say the little guy is desperate to get out underneath whatever has them in dire straights to reasonably think a “gamble” as rational.

Are you asserting that lower income people cannot be as greedy as higher income people?

The common definition of greed would be the selfish desire of more than one needs, the "little guy" by definition that us taken by investment scams or mass Crypto pump and dump scams usually isn't seeking more than they need, but in such a desperate and dire financial and economic position they are usually just attempting to gain some footing to put them on level ground. At the end of the day the scams exist because they work, whether you blame it on their the greed of the victim or it is just an act of desperation is irrelevant, the conduct that can and should be regulated is that of the scammers.
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