My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant • Hacker News Board

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#151

Post by anigbrowl » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 1:05 AM UTC

lupatus wrote: post #113

lupatus wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. :) Nations are basically large families. Imagine you spent your whole life thinking you were part of Family A. But then, you discovered you weren't biologically part of Family A or actually adopted by Family A, instead Family A kidnapped you. Would you be inclined to stay with Family A, or would you seek out Family P - your biological family? Similarly, would you want to stay with Nation A or go seek out Nation…

For those downvoting this comment, why? Do you disagree that nations are basically large families? Am I in the wrong to want to hypothetically seek out my biological family or nation of origin? Or, do you disagree with my viewpoint and want me to shut up?

Did not downvote, but absolutely disagree. Ethnic nationalism has a bad track record, to put it mildly.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#152

Post by dennisgorelik » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 1:07 AM UTC

fastfinner wrote: post #112

fastfinner wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh on a philosophical level it is quite unfair. It's not fair at all that all humans are not regarded as equals. It's really unfair that I should be withheld from visiting or living on a piece of the planet because there happens the be a group of people on it that made a "nation" and the "nation" has invisible "borders" and the "borders" are by "law" not penetrable by people from my "nation". But such is the case. If…

May I learn the reason of the down-vote? I am answering to the issue of the fairness of citizenship-by-birth raised in the parent. I draw a distinction between entrenched inequality in world order and the more amenable inequalities.

You are NOT answering the issue of fairness of citizenship-by-birth.

You are just claiming that it's ok to have discrimination by contry of birth.

Well, unfair discrimination is NOT OK. That's why you are getting downvoted.

I personally did not downvote you. Even though I strongly disagree - at least you are trying to understand.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#153

Post by _delirium » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 1:07 AM UTC

haberman wrote: post #145

anigbrowl wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not seeing what the negative consequences are. Are you referring to the fact that some of the immigrants were criminals and mental patients, who were encouraged to emigrate from Cuba and take their problems with them? The article you cite says the scope of this problem is debatable and may well have been overstated. Even if we accept this premise, however, the same situation applies within the United States. Many…

> Are you suggesting that we should have interstate border controls, and require Americans traveling from one US state to another to obtain a visa first? Are you suggesting that US borders with Canada and Mexico, as well as our maritime borders, should be as open as the borders between states?

I'd like to move in the direction of eliminating them, yes. I don't see any reason to keep US/Canadian border controls, given that the relative parity of incomes means there isn't likely to be some huge, destabilizing migration. The EU's Schengen free-travel zone is a good precedent to follow on that, imo. Mexico is a harder case because of how screwed up the country currently is; opening borders tends to work better between relatively stable countries. But certainly we could start with Canada.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#154

Post by guelo » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 1:14 AM UTC

ctdonath wrote: post #20

jeffreymcmanus wrote: post #15

Terrific story. I can't understand how even the most heartless xenophobe could possibly support the deportation of a someone who graduated from a US university. Utterly self-defeating from a social and an economic standpoint.

Crime has consequences, no matter how nice/good/smart you are. Do the paperwork, follow the process, come in legally - like my wife did.

Umm, I guess if there was gay marriage he could have gotten in by marrying you.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#155

Post by anigbrowl » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 1:20 AM UTC

haberman wrote: post #145

anigbrowl wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not seeing what the negative consequences are. Are you referring to the fact that some of the immigrants were criminals and mental patients, who were encouraged to emigrate from Cuba and take their problems with them? The article you cite says the scope of this problem is debatable and may well have been overstated. Even if we accept this premise, however, the same situation applies within the United States. Many…

> Are you suggesting that we should have interstate border controls, and require Americans traveling from one US state to another to obtain a visa first? Are you suggesting that US borders with Canada and Mexico, as well as our maritime borders, should be as open as the borders between states?

I think you should answer my question first, since the existence of interstate crime is indisputable and this doesn't seem qualitatively different from the deleterious effects which you are citing in the Cuban example.

But yes, I think we should be moving towards abolition of external border controls over the long term and dissolution of geographic borders with immediate neighbors like Mexico and Canada in the short term.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#156

Post by rglullis » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 1:20 AM UTC

fastfinner wrote: post #147

rglullis wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is he cheating me or you? What is he taking away from you?

How is he cheating me? His family "cut the line" in building a life in the US, one of the best nations to be in, in the eyes of many on this planet. His chances of winning a Pulitzer would be severely diminished if his family had stayed in the Philippines. So he cheated me by not being subject to the same US immigration rules as I and the rest of the world. He cheated the many other aspiring college students, journal…

    *His family* (...). His chances of (...) *if his family* (...)

He didn't cheat you into one damn thing. The opportunities that were given to him would not be given to you or "the next in line" had he not been here.

Part of what makes a wealthy nation, hum... wealthy, is the fact that it has enough resources to offer opportunities and services to the whole population. The US can give opportunities for you, him or any one that shows the necessary abilities.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#157

Post by iandanforth » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 1:27 AM UTC

ctdonath wrote: post #20

jeffreymcmanus wrote: post #15

Terrific story. I can't understand how even the most heartless xenophobe could possibly support the deportation of a someone who graduated from a US university. Utterly self-defeating from a social and an economic standpoint.

Crime has consequences, no matter how nice/good/smart you are. Do the paperwork, follow the process, come in legally - like my wife did.

Crime should have consequences. Sometimes you have to spend a night in jail. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Parks) Otherwise people might mistake that crime for living an honorable and hardworking life.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#158

Post by anigbrowl » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 1:32 AM UTC

fastfinner wrote: post #147

rglullis wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is he cheating me or you? What is he taking away from you?

How is he cheating me? His family "cut the line" in building a life in the US, one of the best nations to be in, in the eyes of many on this planet. His chances of winning a Pulitzer would be severely diminished if his family had stayed in the Philippines. So he cheated me by not being subject to the same US immigration rules as I and the rest of the world. He cheated the many other aspiring college students, journal…

Your argument assumes a fixed number of available opportunities. In the work context, this is known as a 'lump of labor' fallacy.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#159

Post by adolph » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 1:46 AM UTC

lupatus wrote: post #139

kelnos wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't downvote you, but yes, I do disagree that nations are large families. And I think the analogy is flawed and attempts to emotionally twist the situation in favor of your conclusion.

Up until a few years ago I would have agreed with you. But, then I started studying genealogy and history and I had to revisit just what the definition of a nation is. Wikipedia states that a nation refers "... to a community of people who share a common territory and government; and who often share a common language, race, descent, and/or history." The USA is comprised of a community of people who, except for recent…

By that logic, most of people living in America are as much related to the rest of the world as one another, right?

http://www.american-pictures.com/genealogy/we.are.all.cousin...

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#160

Post by cookiecaper » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 1:47 AM UTC

nick-dap wrote: post #58

haberman wrote: post #28

I have no beef with this guy who was basically forced into breaking the law before he could have responsibility for his actions. But overall I just feel that the compassion about immigration is misplaced. I don't understand why all the pro-immigration people say "look at these poor undocumented immigrants -- we should make life better for them." I think the people we should have compassion for are the people who are…

How is living in limbo for a decade, with literally no single piece of paper identifying you as a human being is "cutting in line?" And why can't we tackle these problems at the same time? Why can't we even tackle these problems _one_ at a time? The Dream Act has been under review since 2001. It is a bill that can be voted on and passed in literally two days. Why not? ... I'll answer. Our impotent Congress, two year…

s/media/electorate