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My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

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Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#121

Post by anigbrowl »

fastfinner wrote: post #102
anigbrowl wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is illegal, I agree. But while I wouldn't do that, I don't feel able to condemn him for dealing with a situation not of his own making. The government does not offer any procedure for a person in his position to regularize their legal status (eg do XYZ and pay a fine in restitution, which will allow you to apply for permanent residency on the same basis as a new visitor). Absent a way to live legally, he has lit…

"Absent a way to live legally, he has little other choice." No he has a choice and he chooses to risk being busted and live in the land of opportunities. He can live legally. He can choose to go back to the native country of his parents and start a legal life there. He has graduated from a university in the US. He has done work in the US. He is much better off resume-wise than many of his peers.

That is irrelevant to the question of his legal relationship with the US government, which is the matter at issue. Sure, he could go to the Philippines, but that's essentially wishing the problem away.

There are a lot of people who are technically citizens of other places but who arrived in the US at such a young age that they have no memory of ever living abroad, and often don't even speak the language. Why should such people suddenly find themselves excluded from legal participation in the workforce when they reach adulthood? From a constitutional standpoint it's a very problematic question, because those persons are at a significant disadvantage without having broken any laws.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#122

Post by quanticle »

haberman wrote: post #65
nick-dap wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is living in limbo for a decade, with literally no single piece of paper identifying you as a human being is "cutting in line?" And why can't we tackle these problems at the same time? Why can't we even tackle these problems _one_ at a time? The Dream Act has been under review since 2001. It is a bill that can be voted on and passed in literally two days. Why not? ... I'll answer. Our impotent Congress, two year…

> How is living in limbo for a decade, with literally no single piece of paper identifying you as a human being is "cutting in line?" Because other kids who might have liked to live in the US and go to a top university didn't get to. You got what you wanted faster because your family broke the law. I still believe that children who are brought here illegally should get a lot more leniency because they weren't respons…

So, just because your mother put you on a plane with a complete stranger when you were 12, you should be thrown back to a third world country for a decade, even though your contributions to American society outweigh most native born citizens?

Yeah, that's real fair.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#123

Post by jeffreymcmanus »

lutorm wrote: post #77
jeffreymcmanus wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the fallacies about immigration is that anybody can become a permanent resident by marrying a citizen. This path to permanent residency was basically choked off in the 1980s by requiring that the newlywed couple leave the country for a few years before they're allowed to come back to the US to live, and even then, it's not certain that the government will let it happen. This means that if I happen to fall in l…

Huh? "Anybody" (i.e. excluding terrorists, nazis, communists, HIV-positives, and other comparatively small segments of the population) can become a US permanent resident by marrying a US citizen unless they are present in the US illegally. Then the case is more complicated, but in many cases you are still eligible.

Please reread, I said "this path to permanent residency," not "the only path".

You can become a permanent resident by getting married, but the process isn't straightforward. The draconian requirement that the newly-married couple leave the US reduces some fraud, I'm sure, but it also causes an enormous amount of disruption for the 99% of legitimately married couples who have families and livelihoods within the US.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#124

Post by kelnos »

fastfinner wrote: post #43
haberman wrote: post #28

I have no beef with this guy who was basically forced into breaking the law before he could have responsibility for his actions. But overall I just feel that the compassion about immigration is misplaced. I don't understand why all the pro-immigration people say "look at these poor undocumented immigrants -- we should make life better for them." I think the people we should have compassion for are the people who are…

EXACTLY!!! There are so many people who are trying to come and contribute to the US society through legal means. They run into all kinds of obstacles and barriers. Meanwhile it's OK to get a citizenship through fake passports?

Meanwhile it's OK to get a citizenship through fake passports?

Why not? Think about it has hacking / routing around a broken system and it doesn't sound so bad. These are precisely the kinds of people I want living in working in the US: hard-working individuals who want to better themselves and those around them, and are willing to do anything to get there.

Or maybe I just hate waiting in lines.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#125

Post by joshz »

Aloisius wrote: post #88

How difficult is it really to have a green card wedding? The only knowledge I have of it is from TV, but surely in a country where a good chunk of the population doesn't take marriage seriously, finding someone to marry you for citizenship wouldn't be difficult. You could even build a startup out of it... USMailOrderSpouses.com.

Residency is conditional the first 2 years of marriage. Both spouses need to go through interviews, appear they are a couple - have joint bank accounts, bills, live together, etc. It's also not a given that somebody with no existing legal status will be granted residency even if legitimately married.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#126

Post by anigbrowl »

haberman wrote: post #92
jshen wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be assuming that something is right because it is the law. I'm inclined to question that assumption. I could also make the usual snarky comment and say that by the letter of the "law" we owe native americans a whole bunch of land. Maybe even the land your house is on.

> You seem to be assuming that something is right because it is the law. No, I'm assuming that regulating immigration is right because not regulating it has demonstrably bad consequences, for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariel_boatlift If regulating immigration is right, sidestepping that regulation is wrong, just like driving without a license, running a bank that doesn't keep enough reserves, or building…

I'm not seeing what the negative consequences are. Are you referring to the fact that some of the immigrants were criminals and mental patients, who were encouraged to emigrate from Cuba and take their problems with them? The article you cite says the scope of this problem is debatable and may well have been overstated.

Even if we accept this premise, however, the same situation applies within the United States. Many people commit crimes in one state and later move to another, where they may or may not commit further crimes. This is such a widespread phenomenon that there's a constitutional clause requiring courts in each state to give 'full faith and credit' to courts in other states, so that criminals can't escape justice by just hopping over the nearest state border. Are you suggesting that we should have interstate border controls, and require Americans traveling from one US state to another to obtain a visa first?

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#127

Post by jshen »

haberman wrote: post #92
jshen wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be assuming that something is right because it is the law. I'm inclined to question that assumption. I could also make the usual snarky comment and say that by the letter of the "law" we owe native americans a whole bunch of land. Maybe even the land your house is on.

> You seem to be assuming that something is right because it is the law. No, I'm assuming that regulating immigration is right because not regulating it has demonstrably bad consequences, for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariel_boatlift If regulating immigration is right, sidestepping that regulation is wrong, just like driving without a license, running a bank that doesn't keep enough reserves, or building…

Now you're assuming that our current regulation system is right.

I think it's clear that our current system is broken. It's far too expensive to enforce our current system, so we're left with laws that are ineffectual. Reality trumps abstract ideas, and I think we need laws that deal effectively with the reality of our situation.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#128

Post by jgh »

potatolicious wrote: post #99
phillmv wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried Canada? We're kind of like the US, but better.

To expand on the point: skilled immigrants in Canada gain permanent residency (aka the equivalent of the green card) immediately upon entry. You can work for anyone, in any field, without restriction. You have health care, education, and all of the benefits of anyone else except the vote. And that only takes three years of continuous residency. Compare with the US: must make the H-1B quota, wait years, apply for Gree…

Sounds faster to go to canada and become a canadian citizen and then enter the U.S. on TN status :P

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#129

Post by trustfundbaby »

fastfinner wrote: post #112
fastfinner wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh on a philosophical level it is quite unfair. It's not fair at all that all humans are not regarded as equals. It's really unfair that I should be withheld from visiting or living on a piece of the planet because there happens the be a group of people on it that made a "nation" and the "nation" has invisible "borders" and the "borders" are by "law" not penetrable by people from my "nation". But such is the case. If…

May I learn the reason of the down-vote? I am answering to the issue of the fairness of citizenship-by-birth raised in the parent. I draw a distinction between entrenched inequality in world order and the more amenable inequalities.

I didn't downvote you but I bet its for this

"Meanwhile, though, I have no sympathy for people who are trying to shortcut the established processes"

The guy didn't choose to be put in that situation, that decision was made for him. I think that's deserving of some empathy ... but that's just me.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#130

Post by kelnos »

lupatus wrote: post #113
lupatus wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. :) Nations are basically large families. Imagine you spent your whole life thinking you were part of Family A. But then, you discovered you weren't biologically part of Family A or actually adopted by Family A, instead Family A kidnapped you. Would you be inclined to stay with Family A, or would you seek out Family P - your biological family? Similarly, would you want to stay with Nation A or go seek out Nation…

For those downvoting this comment, why? Do you disagree that nations are basically large families? Am I in the wrong to want to hypothetically seek out my biological family or nation of origin? Or, do you disagree with my viewpoint and want me to shut up?

I didn't downvote you, but yes, I do disagree that nations are large families. And I think the analogy is flawed and attempts to emotionally twist the situation in favor of your conclusion.
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