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Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

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Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#501

Post by kblev »

anonu wrote: post #441
jedberg wrote: post #17

When I worked at eBay, we had a bonus program based on company revenue. It was around 6% of your salary max and managers got around 25% max based on the same formula. For the first few years, you could count on getting a max bonus every quarter. To the point where most everyone who worked there had always gotten one. And the one quarter, we didn't get the max bonus. In fact, I don't think we got it all. People scream…

This is sort of the deal on Wall Street. You get a "discretionary bonus" and its more mysteriously tied to the performance of the firm. This is the secret, you can't give people too much of a formula. Bonuses have to be conjured up in a nonsensical way, otherwise stuff like this happens.

It seems odd to me why bonuses are tied to the performance of the company rather than the employee's performance.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#502

Post by pc86 »

kergonath wrote: post #435
LambdaComplex wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> even if it can't pay a huge amount for some positions, there's always a lot of recognition that everyone is needed to make it work, and everyone is appreciated I can't pay my rent in recognition or appreciation though.

But it makes it easier to stay motivated to keep working. Of course, at the end of the day you still need enough to pay the bills. You still have a better, healthier, less stressful life than if you feel you are being exploited or not recognised.

> But it makes it easier to stay motivated to keep working.

To... keep working... at your underpaid job?

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#503

Post by analog31 »

astrange wrote: post #195
analog31 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Management lesson: Money is fungible. Making some part of compensation variable on a whim is giving management a rope to hang themselves with.

There are differences in types of compensation in the very short term because of IRS withholding rules. I think a lot more gets taken out of a bonus early in the year, although of course it's all the same when you do your taxes.

Indeed, and while it certainly makes a difference for someone who is living paycheck to paycheck, if a person has relatively stable finances in a stable economy and a cash cushion, then money is money.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#504

Post by emodendroket »

barry-cotter wrote: post #287
dmarlow wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Overwork sucks but if you have evidence that it’s bad for productivity please cite it. Seriously? Of all things, something so obvious like this needs needs citation?

Feel free to name any category of professional where working over 40 hours a week isn’t quite normal. Doctors, lawyers, engineers, professors. It sure looks like people who work more than 40 hours a week on average do better than those who don’t. This is not a claim about what I wish was true, but about what actually seems to be true. The actual research on this is scarce to the point of non-existence. It may actuall…

Medical error is apparently the third-leading cause of death in the United States (see https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading...). It certainly seems plausible that our culture of overworking doctors contributes to that significantly.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#505

Post by tomrod »

IshKebab wrote: post #466
benhurmarcel wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true but what can you do about it? It's a direct consequence of building large/complex products. To me it seems that you're just advocating for only building small/simple products. Typically you have a chief engineering team that is in charge to strike that balance, and drive the compromises with all the specialists.

Maybe hire more generalists, make it easier for people to move around the company, have a 2D team structure (i.e. maybe you have a signal integrity team and a PCB layout team or whatever, but then you would also have a subset of each working together on the CPU Card team). There's probably a name for that.

Matrix organization.

Great in theory, extra hours if you're a wrench turner.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#506

Post by mattm »

thedrbrian wrote: post #368
chii wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> success is it's own perk aka, equity compensation. Because i sure aint gonna consider it a perk if a CEO (or owners) to get richer, while i just get praise for making the success!

> Peter Gibbons: You see, Bob, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't even care. >Bob Porter: Don't- don't care? >Peter Gibbons: It's a problem of motivation, all right? Now if I work my ass off and Initech ships a few extra units, I don't see another dime, so where's the motivation? Before I started working at MASSIVE CORP I thought Office Space was a comedy.....

I'd say the motivation is mainly intrinsic. I don't know about you, but I've generally just felt better when I've worked like I care. I've found there to be a correlation between my overall happiness and well-being and the effort that I put into work. This doesn't mean going overboard and working overtime, just to care about what I'm working on.

I suppose the extrinsic motivation would not be noticeable immediately but should be noticeable over time (ie. taking a 10 year view) as you would (hopefully) earn more than peers who just do the minimum to avoid being fired. If you get laid off, I'd guess you'd also have an easier time finding a new job as well.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#507

Post by emodendroket »

alisonkisk wrote: post #374
rualca wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Feel free to name any category of professional where working over 40 hours a week isn’t quite normal. YMMV but the only time I ever experienced the myth that "working over 40 hours a week is the norm" was when I started working at a US-based company. And the only reason unpaid overtime was the norm was that managers, specially skip-level management, did a piss-poor job establishing sane goals based on realistic tim…

Yes, many places are willing to have lower productivity in exchange for higher quality of life. The US has a different culture and has most economically dominant companies.

Don't know that you can really make a meaningful comparison given the political and military dominance of the United States.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#508

Post by Kalium »

salmo wrote: post #500

Luckily when I started at my company, FY-end bonuses had already bounced around I learned to treat them like a Christmas present. The individual performance aspect existed on paper, but no management chain exercised that because it ruined team dynamics. The only time I saw that done was because someone was basically no-show but it was too hard to fire them, so they got 0 bonus, and their share got spread to the rest…

I once worked for a company where bonuses were literally Christmas presents. They gave them out at the company holiday party and everything.

I remember being enraged when the company Christmas bonus was $50. It struck me as showing that management stopped to think about it before deciding that a larger bonus was too expensive. It felt like an insult.

I would have been happier with $0.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#509

Post by emodendroket »

gonehome wrote: post #166
jedberg wrote: post #17

When I worked at eBay, we had a bonus program based on company revenue. It was around 6% of your salary max and managers got around 25% max based on the same formula. For the first few years, you could count on getting a max bonus every quarter. To the point where most everyone who worked there had always gotten one. And the one quarter, we didn't get the max bonus. In fact, I don't think we got it all. People scream…

Yeah, but your example is a little different than the OP's - I think part of this though is that the company is using the 'bonus' effectively as salary but with the idea that they don't have to guarantee its future. The company treats it like salary, the employees treat it like salary, recruiters probably mention it as part of comp like it's salary, etc. Then one day they decide not to do it, of course people are pis…

> I've found companies that rely on this also tend to underpay on salary, but say things like "we're competitive when you factor in the bonus that basically everyone gets".

If I had money for every time I heard this it'd be a nice bonus unto itself!

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#510

Post by emodendroket »

einpoklum wrote: post #427
greggman3 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question, what's a reasonable solution for a small company (since it's easier to do thought experiments on a small company). You're a business owner. You hire 3 people. You pay them salaries. That year the company does really well. You want to thank your employees. You're not going to just give them raises because there's no guarantee you'll do as well next year It sounds by Netflix logic you should just keep…

Well, why don't you consult them? First set aside the amount of money you were thinking of paying. Now think of some options, e.g.: * Paying the bonus. * Improving office amenities. * Buying each employee an expensive present. * Funding a family vacation for each employee. * Making a sizable donation to a worthy cause (collectively or for each employee). * etc. Then have a meeting with them, and ask them which they w…

I can practically guarantee they are going to want the cash.
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