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DevSkiller IT skills report 2021: Demand and hiring trends

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Re: DevSkiller IT skills report 2021: Demand and hiring trends

#131

Post by etripe »

jjjeii3 wrote: post #63

Please also note that German software engineers have much less money comparing to almost any other country. The average salary is 4900 Euro and after tax this will be 2900 Euro !!! Even software engineers in a poor country like Ukraine make more money after tax than that and they also have much lower expenses comparing to Germany. So why someone living in Germany will spend a lot of time for study, learning all the t…

> Please also note that German software engineers have much less money comparing to almost any other country.

It's hilarious to me that most people in European countries will think this about their own country. I should know, as a Belgian having lived in Sweden with friends all over.

A 40% overall tax rate is among the highest, but about the same level as Belgium or Denmark as far as I understand. 4900€ gross as an average definitely isn't bad, though - that would probably be more like 3500€ here.

As to your conclusion of a "failed state": am I correct in assuming that like in Belgium, France, Holland and to a minor degree Sweden, the valuation of management types is much higher than any technical functions (i.e. engineers, programmers, devops) in Germany?

Re: DevSkiller IT skills report 2021: Demand and hiring trends

#132

Post by benhurmarcel »

jjjeii3 wrote: post #63

Please also note that German software engineers have much less money comparing to almost any other country. The average salary is 4900 Euro and after tax this will be 2900 Euro !!! Even software engineers in a poor country like Ukraine make more money after tax than that and they also have much lower expenses comparing to Germany. So why someone living in Germany will spend a lot of time for study, learning all the t…

It's not great but that kind of salary is still higher than most of western Europe. Young software engineers in France or Spain don't earn as much.

Re: DevSkiller IT skills report 2021: Demand and hiring trends

#133

Post by nsonha »

deviation wrote: post #102
nsonha wrote: post #44

I doubt these tests means anything, Autralian companies use standard tests way less than US companies, there is no reason for Australian devs to just be good at these spontaneoysly.

Born and bred Australian here. In my ~10 year career I've never worked with nor worked for anyone who didn't advocate for (close to) complete code coverage. Can I ask where you've learned this?

I'm not taking about that kind of test, I'm talking about coding tests for interview. Majority of mine has been either light pairing or take home, not the "standard" leetcode type.

Re: DevSkiller IT skills report 2021: Demand and hiring trends

#134

Post by nsonha »

astrange wrote: post #66
threeseed wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apart from Sydney having almost perfect weather and being one of the most stunning cities in the world there are the political aspects. Free healthcare, basically no gun crime, far less polarisation, more family friendly, far less homeless, a more successful multiculturalism environment, strong societal bonds i.e. we were able to get most of the country to agree to large scale lockdowns and mask wearing. Mateship and…

US FAANG health insurance is better and cheaper than (Australian) Medicare, which doesn't cover dentists/therapists/psychiatrists/etc. Universal systems are of course better once you're too sick to keep your job. Also, Sydney's cost of living and housing crisis is apparently even worse than SV, though I don't understand how that's possible. We're very dedicated to making housing expensive here.

Australian Medicare almost covers nothing, I've always used private healthcare for things like dental and optical. It's a system designed to help people who are unable to afford private healthcare, which I have no problem with.

Re: DevSkiller IT skills report 2021: Demand and hiring trends

#135

Post by nsonha »

nostromo wrote: post #118
InvertedRhodium wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An obvious flaw is that it's comparing an entire country to a singular (and disporoprotionately wealthy) state. If you expanded the rate to America in general the violent crime rate is around 800 per 100k, and if you reduced "Australia" to "New South Wales" then you also see a similar drop - but the site doesn't provide an easy to consume summary. The web app doesn't seem to support direct linking to query results, b…

> An obvious flaw is that it's comparing an entire country to a singular state. California has a much larger population and twice the economic output of Australia. It seems much more reasonable to compare Australia to one state than to compare it to the entire US.

but the characteristics of your immediate living zones are not comparable. Sydney and San Fran would be comparable regardless of their populations

Re: DevSkiller IT skills report 2021: Demand and hiring trends

#136

Post by [deleted] »

bonjourmr wrote: post #11

Do you know what is a real shame? This statistic doesn't really correlate with the highest quality output. Most of them who stay put in Australia never really get to put their skills to good use. Our digital landscape is quite conservative & somewhat arguably boring, consisting of mainly traditional finance/banking & insurance - and we all know how these companies work internally (digital as a cost centre). Don't get…

[deleted]

Re: DevSkiller IT skills report 2021: Demand and hiring trends

#137

Post by DevoidSimo »

SilverRed wrote: post #24
bonjourmr wrote: post #11

Do you know what is a real shame? This statistic doesn't really correlate with the highest quality output. Most of them who stay put in Australia never really get to put their skills to good use. Our digital landscape is quite conservative & somewhat arguably boring, consisting of mainly traditional finance/banking & insurance - and we all know how these companies work internally (digital as a cost centre). Don't get…

>Most of the good devs with half an inkling go overseas No they don't. Because not everything is about money. Life in Australia is just better than some war zone in California.

Plus, you can get great money working at one of the FAANGs that are here. It's not quite at the level of the US, but higher than the companies the GP was referring to from what I've heard of their comp.

Re: DevSkiller IT skills report 2021: Demand and hiring trends

#138

Post by nsonha »

jjjeii3 wrote: post #63

Please also note that German software engineers have much less money comparing to almost any other country. The average salary is 4900 Euro and after tax this will be 2900 Euro !!! Even software engineers in a poor country like Ukraine make more money after tax than that and they also have much lower expenses comparing to Germany. So why someone living in Germany will spend a lot of time for study, learning all the t…

maybe don't "spend a lot of time for study, learning all the technologies etc" just to be financially better than someone. If you like your job and it pays enough what is wrong? You like to live in a society when there are people (the cleaning guys) who don't make enough and have to feel inferior for their job?

AND, these day jobs are fluid, just because someone works a mundane job does not mean that's their only job/contribution to society. In fact, the fact that they work a low demand job can enables them to be more entrepreneurial/creative/commit to their community/family, as opposed to some devs who spend every awaking moment perfecting their craft, only to use that skill to help some corporate sell people things they don't need.

AND, you're paying taxes for all the social services/safety net you're entitled, so you don't have to live in constant fear and save like crazy like people from Ukraine or Asia where I'm from.

Re: DevSkiller IT skills report 2021: Demand and hiring trends

#139

Post by strogonoff »

harry8 wrote: post #14

I am wildly suspicious of this data. How could it possibly be audited? The presenter of the data has obvious ulterior motives to make something up where the data is inadequate or flat out lie to support their business. The hook got them in here (that's not a dev test, that's a dev test), so well played. But shouldn't we just dismiss all of this as yet more BS until they can show otherwise. It's far, far too clean.

> 94% of developers finished the coding test sent to them for recruitment purposes, up from 93% last year. This shows that candidates who are sent a relevant, stack-specific coding test are taking them more seriously than ever before.

This could also say that they are now choosing to send tests to more desperate candidates than before. Either way, I see no way for stats like this to not suffer from selection bias, and after scanning the article I wouldn’t take the numbers too seriously.

Re: DevSkiller IT skills report 2021: Demand and hiring trends

#140

Post by monkeycantype »

frongpik wrote: post #115
aesthethiccs wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's cool but you can't fix all the problems in usa with triple salary. > healthcare > unlimited homelessness, in one day in la i saw more homelessness people then in my entire life in australia, this was only eclipsed by san fran. now i get why devs are leaving california, i wouldn't raise a family there. > gun violence > political instability > terrible pre-12 education system. > general shitty american populatio…

Gun violence exists only on media outlets. However 600k/year deaths from cancer is very real and the US healthcare won't miss a chance to bankrupt those people before they die.

In a life in Australia I got shot at once by a guy who thought I was a kangaroo and apologised, in five years in the us, I had guns drawn on me 5 times twice by police on one occasion at least five guns, twice by strangers unprovoked threatening to kill me, and once more or less abducted. I love California, I really really love it, but gun violence and the threat of it is not a media beat up. The difference in the feeling of threat in us v Australia is quite different, on average, there are places in Australia that are not safe, and in the end I believe the causes are the same, there are places in both countries where the inequality is brutal, and where the sanctioned violence that maintains economic disparity is on clear display
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