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Effective altruism is not effective

philosophersbeard.org

41–50 of 248 posts

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#41
For a more interesting critique of Effective Altruism and Peter Singer see: https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2015/05/21/how-and-how-not-...

Effective Altruism is a particularly base version of utilitarianism. It cheerfully accepts situations where you would be required to eat your grandmother or allow your child to starve in order to feed a village of people you've never met in another country. Peter Singer argues that it's okay to be a concentration camp guard because if you refuse, someone else will be found to take your position, and they might be more brutal than you. Do you believe the earth is overpopulated? If so, and if you cannot live in such a way as to offset the damage caused by your existence, effective altruism calls for suicide.

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#42

My problem with EA, closely related to the points expressed by the author of this article, has always been this magical insistence on altruistic organizations that are both: 1. Extant outside the individual (e.g. "you", the reader, are not in an altruistic organization, but _somebody_ out there is, it's just not "you", so where is that somebody, and if it's not you, why do we always assume there will be a somebody) a…

Err, that's exactly what 80,000 hours, the EA career advice organization, recommends. The recommendation to pursue a high-earning career is last, they recommended pursuing research, policy, and joining altruistic organizations ahead of that.

You have to adjust the message to the audience though, 80,000 hours is aimed at college students and young grads, it doesn't make as much sense to emphasize these things if you're talking to a late career software engineer.

I think the EA advice regarding donations is more of a common lower denominator sort of thing. Not everyone can do research and policy work, but a lot of people have at least some disposable income.

The author of this article seems only aware of GiveWell and Giving What We Can, there's other EA orgs doing things beyond advocating for charitable giving.

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#43
This article illustrates a big issue with people opposed to EA - they severely underestimate the risks associated with political change.

Of course, we can just assume everything goes well, we agitate for political change, we get a change for the better, everything is great.

But the risk of a different outcome never seems to be taken into consideration. For instance:

We believe the conditions in our country are unfair. We start agitating and take down vital institutions in the name of change. Our movement gets hijacked by a military strongman who happens to be charismatic and liked by the people, and now we're under a brutal military dictatorship.

Oops.

History shows the likelihood of the second kind of outcome is, at the very least, non-ignorable.

I would like to see more analysis on what causes bad outcomes of this kind, and to see them taken seriously, instead of this handwaving where poltical action always leads to good outcomes.

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#44

My problem with EA, closely related to the points expressed by the author of this article, has always been this magical insistence on altruistic organizations that are both: 1. Extant outside the individual (e.g. "you", the reader, are not in an altruistic organization, but _somebody_ out there is, it's just not "you", so where is that somebody, and if it's not you, why do we always assume there will be a somebody) a…

I agree with you in that this aspect of EA has sometimes rubbed me the wrong way. I do see how EA writers get there though:

Statistically, it's very unlikely that you will be the first person to hear about a particular initiative or cause. Given that a lot of EA people follow similar media (some of which is focused specifically on evaluating the best up-and-coming EA opportunities), the moment that an organization gets written up as a credible and good opportunity, they will immediately have more volunteers than they will have posts for. So the experience of the median Effective Altruist is one of wanting to do good, but finding out that they're the 200th person calling to volunteer at an organization that really only needs 10 data-entry folks and 1 sysadmin.

So with that in mind, a lot of EA writing focuses on setting expectations: You probably won't get to be directly involved, but here are other ways you can help that might not feel as vindicating, but do do actual good. I think part of the reason the writing is oriented this way, is an expectation that there will always be a glut of hardcore volunteers who will call and volunteer even if you tell them not to. Those people don't need convincing, but the people who do need convincing are the ones who might drop out if they find they aren't going to be on the front lines. Those are the people who need instructions on what their best role will be.

You may think that sounds patronizing; it really kind of is. But I think the more interesting question is if it's Effective, and it might be.

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#45
As a general principle, you're going to achieve at best, small, dystopia-blunting effects by effectively redistributing the resources of the not-rich. Gofundme healthcare will save a few people. Giving to panhandlers might keep them out of a killing freeze. What it won't do is make the dystopia go away.

What you need to do that is politics.

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how altruism can be a distributed concept. It seems purely individual, an inside-out action. The idea of any collective, plural, outside-in action may be something, but not altruism.

Any time humans get together to solve a problem, band together to form a charity, coordinate over a social network to send out PPE, etc, they are not simply allocating optimally at the margins, they are aggregating resources and spending them toward a directed goal more efficiently. These are all examples of altruism. If you narrowly scope altruism to "marginal donation optimization", then yes, effective altruism is…

I accept that your definition is a common one, but one of two attributes strike me as crucial for an unambiguously pure altruism:

- total anonymity, or

- ultimate sacrifice, as in the mother or warrior who lays it down for another.

Anything less is open to the usual questions of motive.

As with Dada, altruism doesn't survive intellectual evaluation.

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#47
> But effective altruism supplies no plan for the elimination of poverty itself, and there is no way for a feasible plan for that goal to be developed and implemented by this method of reasoning at the margin.

Except if you look at actual EA organizations they are not “reasoning at the margin” when it comes to global poverty. GiveWell is targeting global health, which can absolutely be solved with donations (vaccines, for instance, don’t require changes to societal structure to eradicate diseases).

Open Philanthropy tackles more structural issues such as criminal justice reform - but they aren’t doing something “marginal” like donating to bail funds. Instead, they’re donating to organizations which build grassroots movements among crime victims and formerly incarcerated people and funding pilot programs for alternatives to prisons.

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#48
post #4

This reads like a strawman perspective on the concept of 'effective altruism.' The 'effective' part in the term is doing a lot of the heavy lifting when it comes to the definition. It seems reasonable to focus on actually 'effective' actions with good outcomes, rather than comparatively ineffective virtual signalling or martyrdom. Becoming rich and then helping millions of people with your means is more impactful tha…

>Becoming rich and then helping millions of people with your means is more impactful than being poor and helping dozens.

It's also more self-serving for the better part of it (as your focus is to become rich), and might never reach the second part (actually becoming rich and helping others).

It's also bogus: not many can become rich, both for reasons for circumstance making from much harder to nigh impossible for billions, and also for purely logical reasons: wealth is relative, and if much bigger numbers of people were rich, it would get lost to inflation.

So this effectively gives a pie-in-the-sky idea for what to become and when to help, to most people, as opposed to encouraging them to help dozens (or just a few) here and now.

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#49
I think the biggest problem with the Effective Altruism movement is that it has become too tied up with people who like to debate things, especially topics like AI Risk.

Optimizing the effectiveness of one's charitable donations is a reasonable goal. Doing basic research to choose efficient and effective charities makes sense. However, there are large parts of the EA community that have gone off the deep end of debating topics like AI Risk. This has given rise to weird situations where EA communities have wasted countless hours debating whether it's better to donate mosquito nets to combat malaria, or to give money to research institutions that are studying the risks of general AI. 2 of the top 3 biggest donations from Open Philanthropy are to study AI risk. The 80,000 hours community has spent years creating podcasts and websites, but it's still difficult to extract actionable information from it. It's all becoming increasingly nebulous, and frustratingly so.

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#50

The author has a good point about traditional donation-based altruism not always being the most effective in achieving the end goal of ending poverty. For example, dumping hundreds of tons of second-hand clothes in African countries has a huge negative impact on local textile industries [1]. So while you're helping clothe people short-term, you're depressing wage opportunities long-term. I believe (could be wrong) th…

We should also stop requiring poor nations to follow intellectual property laws. If we didn’t make them pay high license fees for medications etc they wouldn’t be so destitute. Broadly speaking if local economies could develop producing and selling clones of important goods, they could grow their own economy more easily. Intellectual property restrictions are a completely human made notion that keeps the powerful wealthy but it harms the poor. And unfortunately the WTO and IMF have long required harmonization of IP restrictions as a condition for aid money. We forced them to abide by our rules in order to “help” them and it’s doing great harm.
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