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Effective altruism is not effective

philosophersbeard.org

11–20 of 248 posts

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#11
post #2

This is all about the framing. What question is being answered? If the question is "which charity should I donate to" then we've already narrowed the scope to an individual's action with their own money. (Although there are some forms of collective behavior like crowdfunding.) The case for effective altruism seems pretty good within that space . If you broaden your scope to all the things people could do working toge…

Effective Altruism doesn't restrict its influence to charity-picking. It also actively encourages the career strategy of "earning-to-give", particularly to students just entering university.

Unlike allocating charity-dollars, that decision is not marginal but influences the lifetime of a person, and if universalized would significantly reduce the mindshare of people in industries that can make better use of existing wealth, vs industries that are income-producing for the individual.

This is an irony that people from outside EA detect, that financiers which are drawn towards "earning-to-give" are still the lifeblood of institutions that play such an integral part in creating inequality and volatility.

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#12
The author has a good point about traditional donation-based altruism not always being the most effective in achieving the end goal of ending poverty. For example, dumping hundreds of tons of second-hand clothes in African countries has a huge negative impact on local textile industries [1]. So while you're helping clothe people short-term, you're depressing wage opportunities long-term. I believe (could be wrong) that something similar happens with donated bulk food products.

I'm a fan of one of the author's later suggestions to implement a UBI-style setup and give people money directly rather than playing whack-a-mole with specific needs. The challenge there, of course, becomes political and safety concerns in less-stable areas. That's a problem that might not have a private sector solution short of paying mercenary forces or supranational compounds. I'd love to hear other peoples' thoughts.

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-44951670

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#13
The blog seems to assume a linear approach to progress.

For example, if I donate 1,000 dollars to a person's yearly income. That person purchases capitals to make money or improve standard of living which leads to better fed children who can improve their own lives.

It doesn't only touch that person's live, but the community around them. The community can do more now that certain goods are more available, or that they get better service.

More is always more and always more effective.

So, yes. You only changed a very tiny corner of the world, but each passing year, it becomes more efficient and more effective over time.

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#14
post #7
post #4

This reads like a strawman perspective on the concept of 'effective altruism.' The 'effective' part in the term is doing a lot of the heavy lifting when it comes to the definition. It seems reasonable to focus on actually 'effective' actions with good outcomes, rather than comparatively ineffective virtual signalling or martyrdom. Becoming rich and then helping millions of people with your means is more impactful tha…

Both of your examples are individualistic, what about thousands or millions of poor people collectively fighting for something? The total impact of collective action is much greater than the sum of its individual parts.

I don't think individualist effective altruism is incompatible with collective effort.

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#15
This isn't the first time I've seen someone criticize EA on the grounds of "instead, you should be agitating for political change to fix the systemic issues that put people in poverty" . I would love to know if Wells or any of the other people making these arguments have ever had any impact whatsoever on political outcomes in their respective countries. I suspect their total contribution to improving people's lives is zilch, compared to the known positive outcomes of EA.

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#16
A solution to 90% of the article is maximizing average expected utility which avoids several flaws with traditional utilitarianism.

GiveDirectly is a ground-up solution to the long-term problem of poverty.

Now I get very political, but I think it's also empirically true: global capitalism is the major force for extreme poverty in this century. Cheap labor is highly desirable and economically efficient for everyone except the poor. I think one convincing piece of evidence is how many countries are in favor of free trade agreements but not free movement (immigration, emigration) agreements, except between economic peers.

EDIT: The article does mention GiveDirectly but says UBI is a better solution, which is strictly true, but requires political will to implement much like changes to immigration policies whereas individual charity can have immediate benefits while political will shifts.

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#17
post #7
post #4

This reads like a strawman perspective on the concept of 'effective altruism.' The 'effective' part in the term is doing a lot of the heavy lifting when it comes to the definition. It seems reasonable to focus on actually 'effective' actions with good outcomes, rather than comparatively ineffective virtual signalling or martyrdom. Becoming rich and then helping millions of people with your means is more impactful tha…

Both of your examples are individualistic, what about thousands or millions of poor people collectively fighting for something? The total impact of collective action is much greater than the sum of its individual parts.

I don't see how altruism can be a distributed concept. It seems purely individual, an inside-out action.

The idea of any collective, plural, outside-in action may be something, but not altruism.

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#18
post #4

This reads like a strawman perspective on the concept of 'effective altruism.' The 'effective' part in the term is doing a lot of the heavy lifting when it comes to the definition. It seems reasonable to focus on actually 'effective' actions with good outcomes, rather than comparatively ineffective virtual signalling or martyrdom. Becoming rich and then helping millions of people with your means is more impactful tha…

I'd assume you mean that being poor and helping dozens is more effective?

The impact that you have when you are close to the person is far more likely to be a good one than if you're disconnected from them

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#19
This article completely mischaracterizes the beliefs of most of the people quoted or referenced, then engages with those beliefs only via asserting the opposite without any supporting argument. I'm disappointed.

For example:

> The most charitable explanation of Singer’s dismissal of political action is that he is trying to sell being an altruist and he thinks a consumer -hero version is the one people are most likely to buy. Singer and other effective altruist philosophers believe that their most likely customers find institutional reform too complicated and political action too impersonal and hit and miss to be attractive.

Interestingly, the author quotes part of Singer providing an argument against the effectiveness of institutional reform, but does not himself provide an argument for it, just an assertion that political change is "the most obvious and powerful tool we have." (I think that's far from obvious!) Instead, he jumps straight to accusing Singer of arguing in bad faith. This is actually the opposite of charitable.

For another example, I'm deeply confused about how the author of this piece could cite Will MacAskill and Toby Ord, then write:

> The underlying problem is that effective altruism's distinctive combination of political pessimism and consumer-hero hubris forecloses the consideration of promising possibilities for achieving far more good.

Ord and MacAskill co-founded an organization, 80,000 Hours[1], which advocates mostly not for effective giving (which the author derides as a "consumer hero" approach) but rather for spending your career working on one of the world's most pressing problems; notably including for instance several types of policy change.

EDIT: and I missed this one the first time around:

> One could spend at most a few tens of millions of dollars on anti-mosquito bed nets before returns start dramatically diminishing because everyone who can be helped by them already has one.

A single bednet charity, the Against Malaria Foundation, has literally already raised 10x this amount without substantially diminishing returns: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Against_Malaria_Foundation

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#20
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both of your examples are individualistic, what about thousands or millions of poor people collectively fighting for something? The total impact of collective action is much greater than the sum of its individual parts.

I don't see how altruism can be a distributed concept. It seems purely individual, an inside-out action. The idea of any collective, plural, outside-in action may be something, but not altruism.

People help each other altruistically, and these networks of interchanged aid, called mutual aide, eventually allow for collective action.
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