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Effective altruism is not effective

philosophersbeard.org

21–30 of 248 posts

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#21
I didn't read the article.

Fwiw afaic, the reason poverty persists is a product of the market solution we've elected. It's for all practical purposes and intents necessary for poverty to exist as it creates a class of people willing to invest their time at a deficit to themselves (relatively undervalued labor). More or less kin to introducing an artificial concentration gradient, where there likely was none. Without that poverty resources would become increasingly expensive because labor supply becomes more reticent to act on a deficit because they're no longer existentially threatened. Additionally, demand increases as there is more liquidity and velocity. The most compromising feature of this is the megalithic multinationals sinking all that money which destroys the natural local circularity. All the money ends up in Amazon, Nike, and Coca-Cola's accounts.

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#22
My understanding of effective altruism comes from the rationality movement. The impression I got from there is essentially:

IF you want to help people (or reduce some specific type of suffering) THEN this is the most effective way to do so

whereas this article seems to be emphasizing Singer's moral imperative.

Honestly, even with my limited exposure to effective altruism, I think they have already answered all these arguments. This is the heroic struggle version of altruism, where the goal is to show how much effort you put into something.

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#23

The author has a good point about traditional donation-based altruism not always being the most effective in achieving the end goal of ending poverty. For example, dumping hundreds of tons of second-hand clothes in African countries has a huge negative impact on local textile industries [1]. So while you're helping clothe people short-term, you're depressing wage opportunities long-term. I believe (could be wrong) th…

It seems like if an NGO provided a UBI in a region that was controlled by a dictatorship, the dictatorship could simply take all the money. When taxes are not set democratically, giving money to individuals seems roughly equivalent to giving money straight to a dictator.

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#25
Effective altruism is a net positive, but it’s not a panacea. It suffers from the same problems as central planning and communism.

Donors and nonprofits think they can calculate the most “effective” way to allocate funds — if only we can pack enough phds in this boardroom we’ll end poverty! Problem is, there’s no space in the room for the experts themselves — the ppl actually in poverty.

Poverty is complex and no group of people can predict all the externalities of trying to address it — like using bed nets for fishing instead of malaria prevention or changes in behavior when the rich scientists come to town with their clipboards to conduct their RCTs.

I find it funny that capitalists are all about trusting the free market and self-interest when it comes to business and politics, but when it comes to philanthropy, they know best.

In reality, the solution is quite simple — just ask “the people in poverty” if and how they want help. Most of the time they’ll likely ask for money or a job, which seems pretty reasonable to me and can be accomplished with very little overhead.

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#26
I am not a religious person, and I am not posting this for religious reasons; but I do respect and appreciate some religious traditions and wisdom that have been practiced for a thousand years or more.

I have read that Jewish law mandates charity, called tzedakah (the etymology of the word is related to the word for justice.) This is a personal act of charity, not necessarily a group act of charity. It is a responsibility of individuals. This would seem to conflict with the premise of the article, i.e. effective altruism is a failure.

Charity, a form of sacrifice, is a human act that is experienced by both the giver and the receiver. Everyone, including the poorest and the richest, are able to participate in this act of giving and receiving. It is more than accounting: x is given for y result.

It is also interesting that the prescribed order in which charity occurs is advised to be accomplished by both proximity and level of empowerment. So, community and productivity are emphasized first before other giving. I have always found this to be interesting advice.

Here is a link to an article that summarizes this wisdom for those who are interested:

https://ejewishphilanthropy.com/tzedakah-and-philanthropy-re...

Again, this is just commentary to add to the discussion. No arrows, please :).

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#27
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both of your examples are individualistic, what about thousands or millions of poor people collectively fighting for something? The total impact of collective action is much greater than the sum of its individual parts.

I don't see how altruism can be a distributed concept. It seems purely individual, an inside-out action. The idea of any collective, plural, outside-in action may be something, but not altruism.

Any time humans get together to solve a problem, band together to form a charity, coordinate over a social network to send out PPE, etc, they are not simply allocating optimally at the margins, they are aggregating resources and spending them toward a directed goal more efficiently. These are all examples of altruism. If you narrowly scope altruism to "marginal donation optimization", then yes, effective altruism is indeed a fairly trivially optimal way to allocate these resources.

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#28
Anecdotal, but in my experience, everyone I've ever met who talks a lot about EA is a huge latte liberal who mostly just want to associate with Yudkowski because they've fallen for his supposed "smartest person in the world", yet with a near blank slate of actual accomplishments

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#29
My problem with EA, closely related to the points expressed by the author of this article, has always been this magical insistence on altruistic organizations that are both:

1. Extant outside the individual (e.g. "you", the reader, are not in an altruistic organization, but _somebody_ out there is, it's just not "you", so where is that somebody, and if it's not you, why do we always assume there will be a somebody) and

2. Assumed to be more efficient than the individual joining the altruistic organization. Somehow the cap on good you can do is limited to marginal income, not about joining an organization and actually attempting to move the cause forward (whether through managerial efficiency, STEM work, or more).

Sure if the choice is between doing nothing at all and donating marginal income, it should be obvious that donating marginal income helps. But that is simply drawing a trivial comparison between doing nothing and doing a very little bit .

Re: Effective altruism is not effective

#30
post #19

This article completely mischaracterizes the beliefs of most of the people quoted or referenced, then engages with those beliefs only via asserting the opposite without any supporting argument. I'm disappointed. For example: > The most charitable explanation of Singer’s dismissal of political action is that he is trying to sell being an altruist and he thinks a consumer -hero version is the one people are most likely…

> Ord and MacAskill co-founded an organization, 80,000 Hours[1], which advocates mostly not for effective giving (which the author derides as a "consumer hero" approach) but rather for spending your career working on one of the world's most pressing problems; notably including for instance several types of policy change.

That’s not a universally true statement about 80,000 hours. I took their career choice questionnaire and was told to work as a well paid Software Engineer and to donate a percentage of my income (which is what I was already doing — I’m fond of some of Effective Altruism). You could argue that is classic Consumer Hero advice.

I know you qualified your statement but I just want to emphasize it as I think it leaves room for criticism.

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