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YouTube suspends account for linking to a PhD research on WPA2 vulnerability

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Re: YouTube suspends account for linking to a PhD research on WPA2 vulnerability

#241
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Federation is the answer at scale. You need dictatorship for effective moderation. But you also want those dictatorships small, uniform, and interchangeable so that the "citizens" of those dictatorships can easily pick the one that suits them best. Those dictatorships link up (federate) with like-minded dictatorships to benefit from network effects of sharing their content among themselves. If your content doesn't su…

Or you could just be mature and not need to suck on the teat of authoritarianism and learn to tolerate offensiveness.

Moderation isn't just for offensive content.

Re: YouTube suspends account for linking to a PhD research on WPA2 vulnerability

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Choosing to die on that hill of technicality seems like a silly choice. People say "human" but they really mean "a person who diligently considered the content, probably watched the video more than once, understood what they were watching, and possibly has a chance to debate with another human". Or, you know, a reasonable definition for "human in the loop".

It seems you're defining "human in the loop" as "Google makes what I consider to be the correct decision in this case." I believe the point that thu2111 is trying to make is that there _are_ humans in the loop, and having them is no insurance against unilateral decisions that you disagree with or even just plain stupid decisions. The point is that involving more humans in the moderation decisions at YouTube does not…

There are plenty of cases where I disagree with the outcome of companies I interact with. When I spend 30 minutes chatting with an agent via text with Amazon or airlines, I might leave the conversation disappointed, but I never doubt their conscientiousness. I highly doubt United beat me at the Turing Test.

Re: YouTube suspends account for linking to a PhD research on WPA2 vulnerability

#243
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the argument is framed as wanting a human during take down dispute, not pre-approval. There's no need to treat this as an absolute. Why are human contact and reasonable expediency considered mutually exclusive? There is a lot of room in the middle. Can allow human dispute resolution for non-free accounts (i.e. paid or earning). Can limit upload frequency site wide while dispute/abuse queues are backed up (kno…

Agree wholeheartedly: there's definitely a spectrum between what Google are doing atm and full human moderation. I am a strong believer in using AI to augment humans, not replace them. Nudging Google towards putting more humans in the pipeline is what I am hoping posts like this are achieving.

When was the last time Google listened to the public? In spirit, not because there was a backlash? It’s a techno conglomerate with no human face. Google was cool and interesting in 00’s, but nowadays all they create is fodder for those sweet ad dollars.

Re: YouTube suspends account for linking to a PhD research on WPA2 vulnerability

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What knowledge/reality is gained from videos of Spiderman dry humping Elsa or grannies kicking people in the nuts? This is the typical kinds of content that YouTube has lined up for children. Do you really expect a cesspool like this to harbor anything of quality or value for developing minds?

You're speaking of a specific instance and declaring all instances bad. This is unhelpful. If that specific video exists and if it's common, this conversation could be had; but, it's relatively uncommon, making it a surprise. The real answer, as someone else has alluded to, is that YouTube is something that parents should watch or be aware of with their children. There is a great deal of valuable information on YouTu…

> If that specific video exists and if it's common, this conversation could be had; but, it's relatively uncommon, making it a surprise.

It is common: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elsagate

Re: YouTube suspends account for linking to a PhD research on WPA2 vulnerability

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YouTube will robot-moderate themselves into the ground. Too many people are leaving the platform. It’s just a trickle now but soon it will be a flow. It’s the inevitable result of moderation based only on who’s paying you.

> Too many people are leaving the platform A quick google search shows the platform has 2 billion monthly active users[1]. A number that has only been growing. Why do you claim people are leaving? Is it because of a handful of high-profile cases, or maybe you live in a hackernews/techie thought bubble where everyone is annoyed at youtube? The claim that people are leaving, or will leave is just completely baseless im…

We've all seen mighty platforms fall. Myspace at one time could've made the same argument.

You're not wrong, but that logic doesn't hold forever.

Re: YouTube suspends account for linking to a PhD research on WPA2 vulnerability

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What knowledge/reality is gained from videos of Spiderman dry humping Elsa or grannies kicking people in the nuts? This is the typical kinds of content that YouTube has lined up for children. Do you really expect a cesspool like this to harbor anything of quality or value for developing minds?

You're speaking of a specific instance and declaring all instances bad. This is unhelpful. If that specific video exists and if it's common, this conversation could be had; but, it's relatively uncommon, making it a surprise. The real answer, as someone else has alluded to, is that YouTube is something that parents should watch or be aware of with their children. There is a great deal of valuable information on YouTu…

You realize that this comment section is in response to a story where YouTube is suspending educational content, right? Someone else already mentioned Elsagate which is still an ongoing problem as noted by the GP. YouTube is not interested in providing healthy material, which is not surprising since they are owned by the world's largest advertising company. I would advocate that parents should look for better alternatives altogether rather than use it as source of education or entertainment, even with supervision. It's simply the wrong place to go for that sort of thing.

Re: YouTube suspends account for linking to a PhD research on WPA2 vulnerability

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With a $5 monthly fee and no way to upload your own videos, Nebula is most directly competing against Netflix, not YouTube. A few top creators might be able to make that work, but most won't.

And no free trial w/o giving credit card info. Yeah, hard pass.

Use privacy.com. It's a godsend.

Re: YouTube suspends account for linking to a PhD research on WPA2 vulnerability

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With a $5 monthly fee and no way to upload your own videos, Nebula is most directly competing against Netflix, not YouTube. A few top creators might be able to make that work, but most won't.

And no free trial w/o giving credit card info. Yeah, hard pass.

A $20 gift card is great for those things. Then, it doesn’t matter whether you remember to cancel.

Re: YouTube suspends account for linking to a PhD research on WPA2 vulnerability

#249
post #4

>Anyhow, I truly believe humanity has to rollback to operating at a human scale. >Using algorithms to flag content is totally fine… problem is when humans cannot interact with humans anymore and AI gets to chose what is right and wrong. Can't agree more.

Only way is probably population reduction

Re: YouTube suspends account for linking to a PhD research on WPA2 vulnerability

#250
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, we have to make sure we're OK with the consequences of going this way. Would people be happy to wait for days, maybe weeks, for their video to be approved for upload to YouTube? Would that work with the current society's attention span? Is YouTube as we know it actually feasible without AI-based moderation? Can it be a sustainable business with an army of human moderators and/or a drastically reduced sc…

I think the argument is framed as wanting a human during take down dispute, not pre-approval. There's no need to treat this as an absolute. Why are human contact and reasonable expediency considered mutually exclusive? There is a lot of room in the middle. Can allow human dispute resolution for non-free accounts (i.e. paid or earning). Can limit upload frequency site wide while dispute/abuse queues are backed up (kno…

> Let's be clear, the lack of humans anywhere in the pipeline for uploaders is because they don't have to, not because it is impossible.

The real problem here is that people are envisioning human interaction as something that can produce better outcomes, but the cost of that may not be economical.

You can hire a generic human to look over a flagged video for 15 seconds and render a verdict, but the verdict is going to be bad. That's not enough time to make an accurate evaluation.

Suppose you have an epidemiologist on YouTube making a claim about virus propagation. It gets flagged because there is a CNN article reporting that the CDC said something contradictory. The epidemiologist argues that the CNN article is a misinterpretation and if you look at the original CDC publication, that's not really what they said.

At this point for YouTube to get it right they've basically got to hire their own M.D. to study the CDC publication in enough detail to understand the context. That is prohibitively expensive. But the alternative is often censoring an epidemiologist who is trying to correct misinformation being disseminated by CNN.

And science is a moving target. The infamous example was the CDC in 2020 telling people not to wear masks. But there was a point in time when scientists were publishing studies on the health benefits of tobacco consumption. Challenging the established orthodoxy is inherently necessary for progress.

The underlying problem here is that YouTube isn't competent to make these determinations. They're attempting to do something they have no capacity to succeed in.

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