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YouTube suspends account for linking to a PhD research on WPA2 vulnerability

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Re: YouTube suspends account for linking to a PhD research on WPA2 vulnerability

#161

Post by [deleted] »

b3kart wrote: post #16
m_a_g wrote: post #4

>Anyhow, I truly believe humanity has to rollback to operating at a human scale. >Using algorithms to flag content is totally fine… problem is when humans cannot interact with humans anymore and AI gets to chose what is right and wrong. Can't agree more.

The thing is, we have to make sure we're OK with the consequences of going this way. Would people be happy to wait for days, maybe weeks, for their video to be approved for upload to YouTube? Would that work with the current society's attention span? Is YouTube as we know it actually feasible without AI-based moderation? Can it be a sustainable business with an army of human moderators and/or a drastically reduced sc…

[deleted]

Re: YouTube suspends account for linking to a PhD research on WPA2 vulnerability

#162

Post by nromiun »

Recently I also discovered that YouTube shadow bans comments for using banned words (e.g. kill, coronavirus etc) or external links (two of my comments got banned). I have seen some people asking for sources on YouTube comments and it turns out you literally can't do that. Maybe that's why only spam comments rise to the top, any long or thoughtful comment simply gets shadow banned.

0. https://support.google.com/youtube/thread/6273409?hl=en

1. https://support.google.com/youtube/forum/AAAAiuErobU70d28s1N...

Re: YouTube suspends account for linking to a PhD research on WPA2 vulnerability

#164

Post by root_axis »

indigochill wrote: post #86
gumby wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> >Using algorithms to flag content is totally fine… problem is when humans cannot interact with humans anymore and AI gets to chose what is right and wrong. > Can't agree more. Simply replaced a prior system in which humans cannot interact with humans anymore and certain humans get to chose what is right and wrong. The key problem is the inability to provide human feedback more than the mechanism for making the init…

Federation is the answer at scale. You need dictatorship for effective moderation. But you also want those dictatorships small, uniform, and interchangeable so that the "citizens" of those dictatorships can easily pick the one that suits them best. Those dictatorships link up (federate) with like-minded dictatorships to benefit from network effects of sharing their content among themselves. If your content doesn't su…

The web is already federated, YouTube just happens to be one of the most popular nodes. Fediverse systems like PeerTube are great, but they don't change anything; in a world where something like PeerTube is as popular as YouTube we'd see the exact same complaints about the most popular node.

Re: YouTube suspends account for linking to a PhD research on WPA2 vulnerability

#165

Post by adrianN »

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #36
b3kart wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the examples you provide have to do with tangible, physical things. Tech is in some sense special because we're dealing with intangibles. It costs a bad actor next to nothing to upload the same video with harmful content to YouTube a thousand times, a million times even. And YouTube has to deal with all of this. That's why they still use physical ballots in most elections: as soon as you're dealing with physical…

But a bad actor can only do so much if manual reviews are involved. If they’re a completely new account because their previous accounts have been banned, accessing on a new device because their previous Alphabet-surveilled fingerprint had been banned, or on a VPN because their IP has been banned, YouTube could just implement manual review which would slow such a bad actor down. And if the intent is to clog up the man…

IPs are very cheap. Botnets are huge and residential IPs are easy to come by.

Re: YouTube suspends account for linking to a PhD research on WPA2 vulnerability

#166

Post by [deleted] »

adrianN wrote: post #20
izacus wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if... instead of YouTube you'd have several intereset based sites which could actually handle their moderation and workload instead of being a giant uncaring behemoth?

Who pays for the moderators? You still need a lot of manpower if you don't want algorithms, regardless of whether you have one Youtube or a thousand SpecialInterestTube.

[deleted]

Re: YouTube suspends account for linking to a PhD research on WPA2 vulnerability

#167

Post by root_axis »

arminiusreturns wrote: post #120

Stop buying into the "the AI did it" whitewashing. Youtube is selectively targeting more and more channels and videos for daring to be any sort of contrarian. Its psyops under any other name.

It's not a "psyops", YouTube, like every gigantic corporation is motivated entirely by money, and they would be happy to monetize every video on the site if they could, but advertisers pay the bills, and since advertisers are sensitive to their public image, YouTube goes out of their way to appease them. The problem here is the ad model, not AI or YouTube's values.

Re: YouTube suspends account for linking to a PhD research on WPA2 vulnerability

#168

Post by iso8859-1 »

shakezula wrote: post #151
kypro wrote: post #133

YouTube's content policy is bizare. Children in my family seem to watch videos of Spiderman dry humping Elsa or grannies kicking people in the nuts, but then they remove stuff like this. I guess this is what happens when advertisers are the main priority and the moderators have all been replaced with robots. Content that may actually harm the development of children is considered fine, while someone posting a slightl…

YouTube will robot-moderate themselves into the ground. Too many people are leaving the platform. It’s just a trickle now but soon it will be a flow. It’s the inevitable result of moderation based only on who’s paying you.

Where are people escaping to? Are people publishing their own content on Gopher or BitTorrent nowadays? These platforms have a perfect balance of usability and freedom. They can take over the world.

Re: YouTube suspends account for linking to a PhD research on WPA2 vulnerability

#169

Post by fencepost »

I don't see any mention of the other thing that would be a concern to me - don't ever be in a situation where any Google product is critical to you, because the behemoth may casually destroy you as a side effect.

What if instead of locking him for a week they'd canceled his account (and related accounts e.g. Gmail, plus linked accounts because 'bypassing ban')?

And you don't have to be doing something like discussing security - maybe you're talking about Pokémon Go and they ban you for "CP videos" or you posted a bunch of red or green emoji in livestream comments for a gamer. Goodbye email, sites logged into with a Google account, Android phones (because they KNOW that phone number is linked to your identity), etc.

And what are you going to do about it? Call customer service? snrk

Re: YouTube suspends account for linking to a PhD research on WPA2 vulnerability

#170

Post by indigochill »

water8 wrote: post #105
indigochill wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Federation is the answer at scale. You need dictatorship for effective moderation. But you also want those dictatorships small, uniform, and interchangeable so that the "citizens" of those dictatorships can easily pick the one that suits them best. Those dictatorships link up (federate) with like-minded dictatorships to benefit from network effects of sharing their content among themselves. If your content doesn't su…

Or you could just be mature and not need to suck on the teat of authoritarianism and learn to tolerate offensiveness.

There's always going to be some line people are unwilling to cross. For instance, one might say Nazi rhetoric should be tolerated for its historical value, but I know zero advocates for allowing child porn.

But how about adult porn? Acceptable to some, not to others (also depends on the context - even advocates of adult videos are generally not arguing that YouTube should host them). And there are shades of that.

In the end, no matter how mature and accepting you are, unless you allow literally everything, you will need moderators who are empowered to be the final authority on that decision, which is what I mean by "dictatorship".

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