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YouTube suspends account for linking to a PhD research on WPA2 vulnerability

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Re: YouTube suspends account for linking to a PhD research on WPA2 vulnerability

#131

Post by kingsuper20 »

It would be fun to do a quick survey of books breathlessly laying out the future of the internet from 20 years ago.

Looking back, the evolution of social media/youtube was pretty obvious. Back then, not so much.

1) Begin with anything goes including illegal. Run at a loss, Grow baby!

2) Ads

3) Bitching from some important people causes some removal of the more flagrantly illegal stuff.

4) Employees and PR departments apply a POV to what is now close to a monopoly. Large scale censorship.

What makes the modern era interesting is the POV angle. I can't imagine Rockefeller's Standard Oil restricting sales to people with conflicting politics. Of course, there are people spending a lot of time each day on r/politics and what used to be r/thedonald shouting joyous insanity at each other...that's the modern pool of workers.

Re: YouTube suspends account for linking to a PhD research on WPA2 vulnerability

#132

Post by Aunche »

This is what people choose when they decide to angrily tweet at advertisers into pulling away ads whenever YouTube doesn't take down bad videos quickly enough. It tells Youtube that they should tune their moderation to be overly aggressive. This is true regardless of how much human moderation they use.

Re: YouTube suspends account for linking to a PhD research on WPA2 vulnerability

#133

Post by kypro »

YouTube's content policy is bizare. Children in my family seem to watch videos of Spiderman dry humping Elsa or grannies kicking people in the nuts, but then they remove stuff like this.

I guess this is what happens when advertisers are the main priority and the moderators have all been replaced with robots. Content that may actually harm the development of children is considered fine, while someone posting a slightly edgey political take or a research paper about something which triggers a bot is removed.

Re: YouTube suspends account for linking to a PhD research on WPA2 vulnerability

#134

Post by slt2021 »

hodgesrm wrote: post #126
m_a_g wrote: post #4

>Anyhow, I truly believe humanity has to rollback to operating at a human scale. >Using algorithms to flag content is totally fine… problem is when humans cannot interact with humans anymore and AI gets to chose what is right and wrong. Can't agree more.

> >Using algorithms to flag content is totally fine… problem is when humans cannot interact with humans anymore and AI gets to chose what is right and wrong. Youtube is in the same economic vice as Walmart. It's hard to be cheap and provide a human touch, especially as labor costs rise. Automation only takes you so far in a free economy.

walmart actually does have customer service in stores. amazon also tries it best to provide customer service (want a return, here is shipping label).

the problem with youtube is that you are not youtube's customer, so the dont care about you. Only advertisers are customers and youtube cares about them only. I bet there is a big customer support department staffed with real people and serves only advertisers

Re: YouTube suspends account for linking to a PhD research on WPA2 vulnerability

#135

Post by rscoots »

EasyTiger_ wrote: post #93
privatesgtrj wrote: post #61

Google is a private company. It's fully within their rights to remove any video they don't like, for whatever reason. It comes with the territory if we want Google to be able to censor hate speech and misinformation. You can always use a competing site, or build your own.

Thanks for joining HN just to tell us this.

That post really does read like a parody haha.

Such a desire to shield mega-corporations from any moral culpability since they think it serves their personal sensibilities. Very naive.

Re: YouTube suspends account for linking to a PhD research on WPA2 vulnerability

#136

Post by slt2021 »

intrasight wrote: post #70
m_a_g wrote: post #4

>Anyhow, I truly believe humanity has to rollback to operating at a human scale. >Using algorithms to flag content is totally fine… problem is when humans cannot interact with humans anymore and AI gets to chose what is right and wrong. Can't agree more.

I'm of the complete opposite opinion. I look forward to the day when our machine overlords make all decisions. Humans are assholes with their own nefarious agendas. Machines are not. Of course if the day comes where machines ask for bribes then I'll change my opinion ;)

and who do you think develops code for machines and whats their agenda?

Re: YouTube suspends account for linking to a PhD research on WPA2 vulnerability

#137

Post by kodablah »

thu2111 wrote: post #85
kodablah wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the argument is framed as wanting a human during take down dispute, not pre-approval. There's no need to treat this as an absolute. Why are human contact and reasonable expediency considered mutually exclusive? There is a lot of room in the middle. Can allow human dispute resolution for non-free accounts (i.e. paid or earning). Can limit upload frequency site wide while dispute/abuse queues are backed up (kno…

What's with the assumption here that there aren't humans involved in this decision? The linked post literally quotes Google saying: "Hi Sun Knudsen, Our team has reviewed your content, and, unfortunately, we think it violates our harmful and dangerous policy." Google has always had humans in the loop. Not for every decision but certainly the more impactful ones that affect user generated content. When I worked there,…

> What's with the assumption here that there aren't humans involved in this decision? The linked post literally quotes Google saying [...]

The post literally quotes Google as saying that for the _last_ time this happened. Then the post literally states they appealed and never heard back. There is nothing concerning a human for this instance, though I suspect once the uploader reaches out (were it not for the popularity this is gaining), one could expect similar dismissal. That there are barely humans involved, and in a poor way when they are, doesn't mean there are never humans involved, true. But for many, the bare minimum of assistance is indistiguishable from no assistance.

Re: YouTube suspends account for linking to a PhD research on WPA2 vulnerability

#138

Post by bg24 »

b3kart wrote: post #16
m_a_g wrote: post #4

>Anyhow, I truly believe humanity has to rollback to operating at a human scale. >Using algorithms to flag content is totally fine… problem is when humans cannot interact with humans anymore and AI gets to chose what is right and wrong. Can't agree more.

The thing is, we have to make sure we're OK with the consequences of going this way. Would people be happy to wait for days, maybe weeks, for their video to be approved for upload to YouTube? Would that work with the current society's attention span? Is YouTube as we know it actually feasible without AI-based moderation? Can it be a sustainable business with an army of human moderators and/or a drastically reduced sc…

> Is YouTube as we know it actually feasible without AI-based moderation? Can it be a sustainable business with an army of human moderators and/or a drastically reduced scale as a result?

I am curious about the cost of a process that establishes human reviews for conflict scenarios, i.e. situations like this. Is that still the planet-scale numbers?

Re: YouTube suspends account for linking to a PhD research on WPA2 vulnerability

#139

Post by finnthehuman »

arminiusreturns wrote: post #120

Stop buying into the "the AI did it" whitewashing. Youtube is selectively targeting more and more channels and videos for daring to be any sort of contrarian. Its psyops under any other name.

"The AI did it" is the same cop-out as "A low level employee did it of their own volition" and should be rejected as an excuse for all the same reasons.

Re: YouTube suspends account for linking to a PhD research on WPA2 vulnerability

#140

Post by slt2021 »

at_a_remove wrote: post #110

I think the "oh no human moderation would cost us too much" defense is a distraction. It's a good one, because it is working, but it is still a distraction. Let us suppose we have a program which checks for orthodoxy according to the YouTube Terms of Service against each video submitted. Nothing but a lack of having done the work prevents YouTube from adding to its "rejected" flag the following: 1) A list of timestar…

this will make it very easy to develop adversarial algorithm and avoid detection by youtube's system
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