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Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

theintercept.com

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Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#161

Post by whimsicalism »

Alupis wrote: post #94
sschueller wrote: post #34

So who takes responsibility when one of these attacks results in a meltdown? And why does Iran not have the right to build their own atomic bomb when the US, Russia or China have them and are building new ones? We ALL should be reducing nuclear weapons including the US. But sadly the US has not been taking a leadership role recently Edit: Nice to see that my global nuclear disarmament comment is getting downvoted. /s

> But sadly the US has not been taking a leadership role recently. I'd wager the US will dismantle it's nuclear weapons the day other nations stop seeking to produce nuclear weapons. ie, this will never happen. The US, China, Russia, India, UK, etc having nuclear weapons is a lot less of a threat to global security than a nation-state such as Iran, which vows to destroy it's surrounding nations every chance it gets.…

Iran is a large nation of millions of people with a relatively developed government (even if we don't like the way it is currently structured).

I doubt they would initiate a nuclear strike, knowing it means their annihilation.

Also, most modern statements by Iran focus on the "Zionist regime", not the literal killing of the residents of Israel. You can find similar rhetoric in the United States about the CCP.

> what is certain is Iran has stated they intend to use nuclear weapons

Is that certain? When have they said that?

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#162

Post by sillysaurusx »

throwaway743 wrote: post #154
yongjik wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One nuke and Israel will just be gone, completely. Iran is probably capable of this, or close. Area of Hiroshima: 350.1 square miles Area of Israel: 8,019 square miles Yeah I'd say [citation needed] for that. > From Israel standpoint the logical step is to bomb Iran military into the Stone Age. This really isn't helping you, because if you're an Iranian and your government says "That country over there says their o…

Depends on yield. Doesn't seem like any nuke used/tested had a yield higher than the Tsar Bomba. Not sure about untested/unused stockpile. https://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/ Doesn't look like even that would wipe out Israel in one go

It's humbling to see just how powerful the largest nukes are. https://i.imgur.com/FXmpY0t.png

(permalink: https://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/?&kt=100000&lat=32.062921...)

You're technically right -- the blast radius isn't covering all of Israel -- but third degree burns across ~50% of the entire landmass would be hell.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#163

Post by PartiallyTyped »

Veen wrote: post #63
sbierwagen wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of the 19 countries in the Eurozone issue their own currency. Ecuador, El Salvador, Zumbabwe, and a couple Pacific islands use US dollars.

Bulgaria, Croatia, Czechia, Denmark, Hungary, Poland, Romania, and Sweden are EU members with their own currencies. The Eurozone does not encompass the entire EU.

Denmark has a fixed exchange policy with euro so it shouldn't count.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#164

Post by whimsicalism »

mvzvm wrote: post #50
hoka-one-one wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Israel that much different? It seems like if you're committed to empowering all BIPOC you would not restrict their access to the weaponry needed to defend their homelands. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option

Israel is not governed by religious law, and has full rights for women, minorities, and LGBTQ. Its basis for most policy is a blend of social democracy and neoliberalism. Its military is purely defensive. I cannot say any of those things about Iran in good faith. Also, the what-about-ism is not a great defense of anything geopolitical btw.

Are ethnic minorities extended the "right of return" in Israel? Last I checked this was not the case.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#165

Post by craigsmansion »

throwawayboise wrote: post #114
refenestrator wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no indication that Iran is any less deterrable than every other nuclear power. We didn't start WWIII when Kruschev banged his shoe at the UN like a maniac, it would also be a bad idea to do it over Iran's posturing. The US killed their national hero last year and we got a measured, proportionate response rather than lighting Iraq on fire. Trying to pre-emptively "bomb Iran into the stone age" would not only b…

> There's no indication that Iran is any less deterrable than every other nuclear power. Unlike other nuclear states, Iran is governed by religious zealots.

> Iran is governed by religious zealots.

In that case their highest religious authority has issued a fatwa against weapons of mass destruction, including nuclear weapons, and since they're religious zealots they would honour that fatwa.

So they're either very religious, and should pose no danger because of that, or they're not very religious, in which case they would pose no danger.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#166

Post by hoka-one-one »

whimsicalism wrote: post #164
mvzvm wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel is not governed by religious law, and has full rights for women, minorities, and LGBTQ. Its basis for most policy is a blend of social democracy and neoliberalism. Its military is purely defensive. I cannot say any of those things about Iran in good faith. Also, the what-about-ism is not a great defense of anything geopolitical btw.

Are ethnic minorities extended the "right of return" in Israel? Last I checked this was not the case.

Yes, if they convert to Judaism. Seems reasonable, Judaism doesn't ban any ethnic minorities.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#167

Post by [deleted] »

SilasX wrote: post #106
dragontamer wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Manhattan project was able uranium purified to get a bomb working without PLCs and networks. By enlisting thousands of young women to watch the knobs and dial buttons. https://outrider.org/nuclear-weapons/articles/women-who-buil... They didn't even know they were building the bomb. They just had to enter the room, dial knobs back-and-forth for 8-hours/day, and then go home. Today, that sort of stuff SHOULD be a…

Today, we've automated that with electronic computer chips, which also don't know the significance of what they're doing computations for.

[deleted]

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#168

Post by dillondoyle »

Alupis wrote: post #94
sschueller wrote: post #34

So who takes responsibility when one of these attacks results in a meltdown? And why does Iran not have the right to build their own atomic bomb when the US, Russia or China have them and are building new ones? We ALL should be reducing nuclear weapons including the US. But sadly the US has not been taking a leadership role recently Edit: Nice to see that my global nuclear disarmament comment is getting downvoted. /s

> But sadly the US has not been taking a leadership role recently. I'd wager the US will dismantle it's nuclear weapons the day other nations stop seeking to produce nuclear weapons. ie, this will never happen. The US, China, Russia, India, UK, etc having nuclear weapons is a lot less of a threat to global security than a nation-state such as Iran, which vows to destroy it's surrounding nations every chance it gets.…

It's hard to differentiate an actual threat though. Trump is an example here who also stated he intended to use nuclear weapons, often times in stupidly ignorant ways.

I think there are parallels with Iran, in that a lot of BS & insane rhetorical bluster we hear(d) feed the base so they can maintain power. They need to keep the religious base flustered and angry at an enemy to maintain their own power.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#169

Post by PartiallyTyped »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #28
dragontamer wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Manhattan project was able uranium purified to get a bomb working without PLCs and networks. By enlisting thousands of young women to watch the knobs and dial buttons. https://outrider.org/nuclear-weapons/articles/women-who-buil... They didn't even know they were building the bomb. They just had to enter the room, dial knobs back-and-forth for 8-hours/day, and then go home. Today, that sort of stuff SHOULD be a…

such an activity would also be a lot harder to hide today with eyes in space capturing everything in high-res

Also, mass tracking through mobile devices. Even if said devices are in faraday cages, it doesn't take a genius to see that something exists in some area when there are many devices going dark and then coming back up again after some hours. It only takes access to cellphone towers and data.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#170

Post by dang »

bowmessage wrote: post #47
avar wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The youth unemployment rate in Iran is ~25%, overall rate is 10%. They issue their own fiat currency, and their GDP per capita is comparable to Thailand and Botswana. So yes, they can probably afford to have a bunch of people tweak knobs in a factory all day.

Wow, you don't say, a country which issues its own fiat currency?

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