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Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

theintercept.com

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Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#51

Post by CivBase »

> To mark the event and send a message to its negotiating partners, technicians at Natanz began to operate a small batch of IR-6 centrifuges as well. The majority of centrifuges at Natanz are a model known as IR-1, which is much less efficient at enriching uranium than the IR-6 design. The nuclear agreement signed with Iran in 2015 (known as the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action, or JCPOA) limited it to using only IR-1 centrifuges, so the installation of the IR-6s is widely seen as a provocation designed to give Iran leverage in the revived talks. To add to the tension, Iran has been enriching uranium gas to 20 percent since the Trump administration withdrew from the agreement two years ago. Prior to this, it was enriching uranium to 3 to 5 percent. The higher levels put Iran closer to the 90 percent enrichment that is needed for nuclear weapons, all of which raises the stakes for Israel.

Why should anyone believe they are pursuing a peaceful nuclear energy program when they do things like this? Surely the best way to convince people you are the peaceful victim is to continue to demonstrate peaceful intentions even when others don't reward you for it.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#52

Post by lmarcos »

monocasa wrote: post #6

This makes you wonder if we might see a resurgence in old school control systems without processors, and def no networks. The Manhattan project was able uranium purified to get a bomb working without PLCs and networks. All else being equal it's more expensive, but not compared to being unable to keep your network safe from attack. You need to reconfigure the line? Send eight techs down one by one to set new parameter…

This is the equivalent of: let's not use a frontend/backend framework in our next project ;)

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#53

Post by KoftaBob »

knowaveragejoe wrote: post #32
Daho0n wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If much of the world wants you dead (your words, not mine) then maybe it's time to look in a mirror. Edit: HN commenters are so thick. First of all GP says everyone hate Israel. So that must include you the reader of this comment. If you actually take that shit serious and then have a problem with my comment instead all I can say is that you should look in a mirror too. It's a fat lie. Not everyone hates Israel. Actu…

Elaborate on what you think they should see in the mirror.

grabs popcorn

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#54

Post by gghhzzgghhzz »

mvzvm wrote: post #38
sschueller wrote: post #34

So who takes responsibility when one of these attacks results in a meltdown? And why does Iran not have the right to build their own atomic bomb when the US, Russia or China have them and are building new ones? We ALL should be reducing nuclear weapons including the US. But sadly the US has not been taking a leadership role recently Edit: Nice to see that my global nuclear disarmament comment is getting downvoted. /s

Iran is a theocracy that has stated multiple times a desire to "Wipe X off the face of the earth", where X is another country / race / religion.

Only one of the countries out of Israel and Iran have nukes, a superpower as benefactor, and lobby continuously for an invasion by that benefactor, an invasion that would kill hundreds of thousands. Not to mention the sanctions that are reshaping an entire society.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#55

Post by shillforhumanty »

knowaveragejoe wrote: post #32
Daho0n wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If much of the world wants you dead (your words, not mine) then maybe it's time to look in a mirror. Edit: HN commenters are so thick. First of all GP says everyone hate Israel. So that must include you the reader of this comment. If you actually take that shit serious and then have a problem with my comment instead all I can say is that you should look in a mirror too. It's a fat lie. Not everyone hates Israel. Actu…

Elaborate on what you think they should see in the mirror.

Self-awareness is a respectable quality that troubled nations should strive for. It can win more people over than today's mess of propaganda.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#56

Post by Protostome »

sschueller wrote: post #34

So who takes responsibility when one of these attacks results in a meltdown? And why does Iran not have the right to build their own atomic bomb when the US, Russia or China have them and are building new ones? We ALL should be reducing nuclear weapons including the US. But sadly the US has not been taking a leadership role recently Edit: Nice to see that my global nuclear disarmament comment is getting downvoted. /s

There's no such a thing as "rights" in international affairs. International relationships are not managed by what's right or wrong, but according to countries' interests and needs.

Now, under this paradigm, we as the free world have to ask ourselves - is it of our interest that Iran will gain access to nuclear weapons? The answer is absolutely no.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#57

Post by sbierwagen »

bowmessage wrote: post #47
avar wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The youth unemployment rate in Iran is ~25%, overall rate is 10%. They issue their own fiat currency, and their GDP per capita is comparable to Thailand and Botswana. So yes, they can probably afford to have a bunch of people tweak knobs in a factory all day.

Wow, you don't say, a country which issues its own fiat currency?

None of the 19 countries in the Eurozone issue their own currency. Ecuador, El Salvador, Zumbabwe, and a couple Pacific islands use US dollars.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#58

Post by balozi »

cryptoz wrote: post #3

Sorry for the pedestrian comment, but, watching the cyberwars happening is surreal. Nuclear material production being attacked by Stuxnet, this current event, others I'm sure, is amazing. The cyberwars of disinformation as well - completely surreal to see this all play out. Sorry I don't have more to add. It's hard to describe how it feels to see the future arrive like this. Pandemic. Rocket milestones, Mars plans. N…

"cyberwar" soften what may be a far worse situation. We may be witnessing the ignition -in slow-motion- of a generation defining global armed conflict. When it all finally goes hot nobody will remember how it started.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#59

Post by pcbro141 »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #36
pcbro141 wrote: post #29

> it appears the facility’s main power distribution equipment was taken out with explosives How do the Israelis keep managing to get explosives into Natanz? They blew up a hall last July. I would have thought everyone entering the premises goes through a body scanner like an airport to make sure you're not carrying bombs, spy cameras, etc.

Right?! Sorry for the empty comment, but I'm fascinated to know this is happening. If there's one place that bombs are unwelcome, it'd be a nuclear facility. One also wonders whether an Israeli planted the bomb, or an Iranian. You'd have to be pretty daring either way.

I'm guessing an Iranian. From articles I've read, it sounds like Mossad has a huge network of ethnic Iranian agents carrying out the ground work in Iran. This stuff is fascinating indeed.

Here's a good read for you: https://archive.ph/uG9Lu

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/15/us/politics/iran-israel-m...

How Israel, in Dark of Night, Torched Its Way to Iran’s Nuclear Secrets

> The Mossad agents moving in on a warehouse in a drab commercial district of Tehran knew exactly how much time they had to disable the alarms, break through two doors, cut through dozens of giant safes and get out of the city with a half-ton of secret materials: six hours and 29 minutes.

> The morning shift of Iranian guards would arrive around 7 a.m., a year of surveillance of the warehouse by the Israeli spy agency had revealed, and the agents were under orders to leave before 5 a.m. to have enough time to escape. Once the Iranian custodians arrived, it would be instantly clear that someone had stolen much of the country’s clandestine nuclear archive, documenting years of work on atomic weapons, warhead designs and production plans.

> The agents arrived that night, Jan. 31, with torches that burned at least 3,600 degrees, hot enough, as they knew from intelligence collected during the planning of the operation, to cut through the 32 Iranian-made safes. But they left many untouched, going first for the ones containing the black binders, which contained the most critical designs. When time was up, they fled for the border, hauling some 50,000 pages and 163 compact discs of memos, videos and plans.

...

> In most Mossad operations, spies aim to penetrate a facility and photograph or copy material without traces. But in this case, the Mossad chief, Yossi Cohen, ordered that the material be stolen outright. That would drastically shorten the time that the agents — many, if not all, of them Iranians — spent inside the building. (continued in the article)

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#60

Post by Zhenya »

cyberscientist wrote: post #31
nullserver wrote: post #19

Israel is fighting for its existence. Iran leadership routinely makes threats to destroy America and Israel. This often get ignored or dismissed. But like waving a gun in a cops face. Well bad things happen. One nuke will piss America off. One nuke and Israel will just be gone, completely. Iran is probably capable of this, or close. From Israel standpoint the logical step is to bomb Iran military into the Stone Age.…

Let's be honest though, had Iran carried out such attack we would have called it a terrorist attack. I know you're about to go on about how awful Iranian regime is and they SAY they want Israel gone. But remember, Israel actually DOES carry out associations.

Terror attacks are against civilian targets - hence terrorizing civilians.

An attack like this is military - which could be carried out by terrorists or a govt.

The difference is important.

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