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Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

theintercept.com

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Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#11

Post by bombcar »

monocasa wrote: post #6

This makes you wonder if we might see a resurgence in old school control systems without processors, and def no networks. The Manhattan project was able uranium purified to get a bomb working without PLCs and networks. All else being equal it's more expensive, but not compared to being unable to keep your network safe from attack. You need to reconfigure the line? Send eight techs down one by one to set new parameter…

It seems that there's also some lack of defense-in-depth going on - if the centrifuges need power to power down, why isn't that built into each one?

It's interesting that the Manhattan project had to build everything themselves - which if Iran was NOT using off-the-shelf parts and instead was developing everything in-house they'd be less susceptible to certain types of attacks.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#12

Post by dragontamer »

monocasa wrote: post #6

This makes you wonder if we might see a resurgence in old school control systems without processors, and def no networks. The Manhattan project was able uranium purified to get a bomb working without PLCs and networks. All else being equal it's more expensive, but not compared to being unable to keep your network safe from attack. You need to reconfigure the line? Send eight techs down one by one to set new parameter…

> The Manhattan project was able uranium purified to get a bomb working without PLCs and networks.

By enlisting thousands of young women to watch the knobs and dial buttons.

https://outrider.org/nuclear-weapons/articles/women-who-buil...

They didn't even know they were building the bomb. They just had to enter the room, dial knobs back-and-forth for 8-hours/day, and then go home.

Today, that sort of stuff SHOULD be automated. It made sense back then because there weren't computers, but... you really can't just get people to balance knobs 8-hours / day anymore.

-------

EDIT: https://www.energy.gov/articles/five-fast-facts-about-calutr...

Seems like Department of Energy has some historical articles on them too.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#13

Post by monocasa »

VonGuard wrote: post #4
cryptoz wrote: post #3

Sorry for the pedestrian comment, but, watching the cyberwars happening is surreal. Nuclear material production being attacked by Stuxnet, this current event, others I'm sure, is amazing. The cyberwars of disinformation as well - completely surreal to see this all play out. Sorry I don't have more to add. It's hard to describe how it feels to see the future arrive like this. Pandemic. Rocket milestones, Mars plans. N…

Information Technologies have been weaponized, but not hardened, if that makes any sense. A lot of soft targets and heavy ordinance, not so many fortresses.

Micheal Hayden during a Blackhat keynote likened 'cyber' to a new domain (like air, land, sea), that's universally like early WWI with open fields of men with no defenses being mowed down by attackers' machine guns.

As an aside, it probably would have been smarter to make Cyber Command it's own branch rather than the Space Force. Space operations are basically figured out with the Air Force taking most of the lead. Cyber Command is apparently a cluster fuck of separate command structures all vying for power. Spending the time making a Space Force always seemed like a 20th century move in a 21st century env.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#14

Post by [deleted] »

monocasa wrote: post #6

This makes you wonder if we might see a resurgence in old school control systems without processors, and def no networks. The Manhattan project was able uranium purified to get a bomb working without PLCs and networks. All else being equal it's more expensive, but not compared to being unable to keep your network safe from attack. You need to reconfigure the line? Send eight techs down one by one to set new parameter…

[deleted]

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#15

Post by yummypaint »

cryptoz wrote: post #3

Sorry for the pedestrian comment, but, watching the cyberwars happening is surreal. Nuclear material production being attacked by Stuxnet, this current event, others I'm sure, is amazing. The cyberwars of disinformation as well - completely surreal to see this all play out. Sorry I don't have more to add. It's hard to describe how it feels to see the future arrive like this. Pandemic. Rocket milestones, Mars plans. N…

Just the other day i was watching a video of protestors taking down a drone with hundreds of laser pointers. People are literally having laser battles in the streets with police robots.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=drone+lasers+protestors&t=fpas&iar...

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#16

Post by rowanG077 »

monocasa wrote: post #6

This makes you wonder if we might see a resurgence in old school control systems without processors, and def no networks. The Manhattan project was able uranium purified to get a bomb working without PLCs and networks. All else being equal it's more expensive, but not compared to being unable to keep your network safe from attack. You need to reconfigure the line? Send eight techs down one by one to set new parameter…

I think it would be easier to own the stack. Don't use third party network equipment. Formally verify every layer of the stack. In the end this is probably cheaper then going back to computerless.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#17

Post by DyslexicAtheist »

cryptoz wrote: post #3

Sorry for the pedestrian comment, but, watching the cyberwars happening is surreal. Nuclear material production being attacked by Stuxnet, this current event, others I'm sure, is amazing. The cyberwars of disinformation as well - completely surreal to see this all play out. Sorry I don't have more to add. It's hard to describe how it feels to see the future arrive like this. Pandemic. Rocket milestones, Mars plans. N…

all the possible scenarios that may happen are playing out equally and in parallel. I think it is part of everyone living different realities and we no longer share (e.g. we are all lonely and isolated). those who haven't been radicalized until now will be so in the future[0]. I think the outcome depends on how _much_ and hard we're squeezed. But everyone eventually falls over the edge. Our reaction to how we deal with it also depends on the individual (directing violence against ourselves e.g. depression or violence against others - e.g. mobbing). Adam Curtis made a fantastic documentary[1] earlier this year on how we got here. It had mixed reviews here on HN

[0] "The future is already here — It's just not very evenly distributed" -- William Gibson

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I9nquHUE0Y&list=PLtPP_-rkrT...

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#18

Post by zdragnar »

dragontamer wrote: post #12
monocasa wrote: post #6

This makes you wonder if we might see a resurgence in old school control systems without processors, and def no networks. The Manhattan project was able uranium purified to get a bomb working without PLCs and networks. All else being equal it's more expensive, but not compared to being unable to keep your network safe from attack. You need to reconfigure the line? Send eight techs down one by one to set new parameter…

> The Manhattan project was able uranium purified to get a bomb working without PLCs and networks. By enlisting thousands of young women to watch the knobs and dial buttons. https://outrider.org/nuclear-weapons/articles/women-who-buil... They didn't even know they were building the bomb. They just had to enter the room, dial knobs back-and-forth for 8-hours/day, and then go home. Today, that sort of stuff SHOULD be a…

Last I had heard, Iran's youth unemployment situation certainly would make that feasible...

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#19

Post by nullserver »

Israel is fighting for its existence.

Iran leadership routinely makes threats to destroy America and Israel. This often get ignored or dismissed. But like waving a gun in a cops face. Well bad things happen.

One nuke will piss America off.

One nuke and Israel will just be gone, completely. Iran is probably capable of this, or close.

From Israel standpoint the logical step is to bomb Iran military into the Stone Age.

Pushed hard enough they may just so that.

However it’s a massive gamble if surrounding counties would eliminate Israel afterwards

These hack jobs, assassinations, etc are all half measures to prevent a full scale war.

Life is hard when much of the world wants you dead.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#20

Post by grenoire »

dragontamer wrote: post #12
monocasa wrote: post #6

This makes you wonder if we might see a resurgence in old school control systems without processors, and def no networks. The Manhattan project was able uranium purified to get a bomb working without PLCs and networks. All else being equal it's more expensive, but not compared to being unable to keep your network safe from attack. You need to reconfigure the line? Send eight techs down one by one to set new parameter…

> The Manhattan project was able uranium purified to get a bomb working without PLCs and networks. By enlisting thousands of young women to watch the knobs and dial buttons. https://outrider.org/nuclear-weapons/articles/women-who-buil... They didn't even know they were building the bomb. They just had to enter the room, dial knobs back-and-forth for 8-hours/day, and then go home. Today, that sort of stuff SHOULD be a…

Not without scheduled Instagram breaks you won't.
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