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Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

theintercept.com

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Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#61

Post by hoka-one-one »

mvzvm wrote: post #50
hoka-one-one wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Israel that much different? It seems like if you're committed to empowering all BIPOC you would not restrict their access to the weaponry needed to defend their homelands. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option

Israel is not governed by religious law, and has full rights for women, minorities, and LGBTQ. Its basis for most policy is a blend of social democracy and neoliberalism. Its military is purely defensive. I cannot say any of those things about Iran in good faith. Also, the what-about-ism is not a great defense of anything geopolitical btw.

What do you think would happen if the US and all of Europe completely pulled out of the Middle East? Would Israel stay the size it is now? If not, can you really say it's "purely defensive"?

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#62

Post by cyberscientist »

avar wrote: post #23
dragontamer wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Manhattan project was able uranium purified to get a bomb working without PLCs and networks. By enlisting thousands of young women to watch the knobs and dial buttons. https://outrider.org/nuclear-weapons/articles/women-who-buil... They didn't even know they were building the bomb. They just had to enter the room, dial knobs back-and-forth for 8-hours/day, and then go home. Today, that sort of stuff SHOULD be a…

The youth unemployment rate in Iran is ~25%, overall rate is 10%. They issue their own fiat currency, and their GDP per capita is comparable to Thailand and Botswana. So yes, they can probably afford to have a bunch of people tweak knobs in a factory all day.

There is also a very deep dissatisfaction towards the government amongst people.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#63

Post by Veen »

sbierwagen wrote: post #57
bowmessage wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, you don't say, a country which issues its own fiat currency?

None of the 19 countries in the Eurozone issue their own currency. Ecuador, El Salvador, Zumbabwe, and a couple Pacific islands use US dollars.

Bulgaria, Croatia, Czechia, Denmark, Hungary, Poland, Romania, and Sweden are EU members with their own currencies. The Eurozone does not encompass the entire EU.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#64

Post by fastball »

cyberscientist wrote: post #31
nullserver wrote: post #19

Israel is fighting for its existence. Iran leadership routinely makes threats to destroy America and Israel. This often get ignored or dismissed. But like waving a gun in a cops face. Well bad things happen. One nuke will piss America off. One nuke and Israel will just be gone, completely. Iran is probably capable of this, or close. From Israel standpoint the logical step is to bomb Iran military into the Stone Age.…

Let's be honest though, had Iran carried out such attack we would have called it a terrorist attack. I know you're about to go on about how awful Iranian regime is and they SAY they want Israel gone. But remember, Israel actually DOES carry out associations.

Huh? I don't know how an attack on a military base could be less of a terrorist attack.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#65

Post by heavenlyblue »

devoutsalsa wrote: post #48
monocasa wrote: post #6

This makes you wonder if we might see a resurgence in old school control systems without processors, and def no networks. The Manhattan project was able uranium purified to get a bomb working without PLCs and networks. All else being equal it's more expensive, but not compared to being unable to keep your network safe from attack. You need to reconfigure the line? Send eight techs down one by one to set new parameter…

This sounds like how the Galactica survived in the 2003 BSG reboot. All of the critical systems (fire control, navigation, life support, etc.) were standalone & not networked. The baddies took out all of the new ships & defense networks with a computer virus, and the old Galactica couldn’t be hacked that way. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlestar_Galactica_(fictiona...

What does it even mean to “not be networked” and on a Galactic spaceship?

I can imagine all of those systems need to communicate within their domain somehow, so they need to be connected. You could make a point that they have “not been connected to the internet”, but then it only takes one node to become a bridge between WAN and LAN and you are Pwned.

It’s even worse now because there’s a tendency in software development to discount security this way: “we don’t need to think about security because we have a firewall”.

I don’t think this is a valid scenario.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#66

Post by fasteddie31003 »

Like them or not the Israeli Defense Force is arguably the most effective military in the world. From the Iron Dome, the Uzi, and the Arrow missile, the IDF has a track record of successful military projects. They seem lean and effective, unlike the US military. The US Military recently has had a track record of project failures from the F-35 to the Comanche helicopter and now they are spending $20B for Microsoft Hololens, which I bet is going to be another bust. The US Military could take some lessons from the IDF.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#67

Post by sbierwagen »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #36
pcbro141 wrote: post #29

> it appears the facility’s main power distribution equipment was taken out with explosives How do the Israelis keep managing to get explosives into Natanz? They blew up a hall last July. I would have thought everyone entering the premises goes through a body scanner like an airport to make sure you're not carrying bombs, spy cameras, etc.

Right?! Sorry for the empty comment, but I'm fascinated to know this is happening. If there's one place that bombs are unwelcome, it'd be a nuclear facility. One also wonders whether an Israeli planted the bomb, or an Iranian. You'd have to be pretty daring either way.

You suborn the whole chain. Instead of one guy, you bribe or threaten the guy at the front gate, the guy who runs the metal detector, the guy who monitors the video cameras. Afterwards you exfiltrate them from the country to some third nation. (Or you don't, and instead do something less nice.)

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#68

Post by matthewdgreen »

everdrive wrote: post #25
nullserver wrote: post #19

Israel is fighting for its existence. Iran leadership routinely makes threats to destroy America and Israel. This often get ignored or dismissed. But like waving a gun in a cops face. Well bad things happen. One nuke will piss America off. One nuke and Israel will just be gone, completely. Iran is probably capable of this, or close. From Israel standpoint the logical step is to bomb Iran military into the Stone Age.…

>One nuke and Israel will just be gone, completely. Iran is probably capable of this, or close. It's not clear that they could actually deliver a nuclear weapon, of course. And certainly not all the way to America.

Not yet, but eventually they will. North Korea has intercontinental missiles. This is 1950s technology: if a country wants it badly enough they'll get it.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#69

Post by hpcjoe »

cyberscientist wrote: post #31
nullserver wrote: post #19

Israel is fighting for its existence. Iran leadership routinely makes threats to destroy America and Israel. This often get ignored or dismissed. But like waving a gun in a cops face. Well bad things happen. One nuke will piss America off. One nuke and Israel will just be gone, completely. Iran is probably capable of this, or close. From Israel standpoint the logical step is to bomb Iran military into the Stone Age.…

Let's be honest though, had Iran carried out such attack we would have called it a terrorist attack. I know you're about to go on about how awful Iranian regime is and they SAY they want Israel gone. But remember, Israel actually DOES carry out associations.

I assume you mean "assassinations".

Iran funds and supports groups who have declared, and continue to make war on Israel as a proxy for themselves doing it. They are happy to expend every single one of their proxy armies and munitions if they can avoid the direct consequences of action.

The groups that Iran supports carry out assassinations. Kidnappings. Mass murder. Direct attacks on non-combatant populations, aka war crimes. They cyber attack where they can. They physically attack where they can get their cannon fodder to do the wet work.

So, what's your point? That Israel is "evil" for demonstrating dangerous teeth behind its deterrence?

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#70

Post by whatshisface »

fasteddie31003 wrote: post #66

Like them or not the Israeli Defense Force is arguably the most effective military in the world. From the Iron Dome, the Uzi, and the Arrow missile, the IDF has a track record of successful military projects. They seem lean and effective, unlike the US military. The US Military recently has had a track record of project failures from the F-35 to the Comanche helicopter and now they are spending $20B for Microsoft Hol…

Maybe it helps to have something to do.
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