China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline • Hacker News Board

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#211

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

bellyfullofbac wrote: post #143

pcbro141 wrote: post #69

Why did the US let its infrastructure get to such a bad state? And why are there so many dilapidated neighborhoods and literally crumbling schools? The US is filthy rich, couldn't they have fixed these things decades ago? Just spend hundreds of billions investing in neighborhoods that have historically been intentionally left to rot? Is it just disdain for the people who live in the crumbling areas? Serious question.…

Attempt of a serious answer: it seems like it's really Republican (party) ideology that government should be small enough to be able to be drowned in a bathtub, and any amount of money for the people is deemed sinful. Never mind that it makes sense to build good roads, fast trains, and even good schools to educate people. Seems like the GOP has a "If we do x, that will prove our propaganda all this time has been wron…

[deleted]

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#212

Post by motohagiography » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 5:13 PM UTC

ericmcer wrote: post #75

EdwinLarkin wrote: post #33

That's ridiculous.China is the one in irreversible decline. Most people in the West get to enjoy freedom and access to utilities money cant buy in China. 1) For once most people in the west have access to safe and good tap water.Chinese urban dwellers dont. 2) Most people in the west live in places with significantly better air quality than chinese. 3) Most people in the west get to enjoy freedoms chinese cant even t…

I think that’s one area they are not considering, in a globalized world being “cool” is actually tremendously valuable.

I'd agree, with the caveat that cool only ever means powerful, and that's the dynamic I think the article indicates is changing.

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#213

Post by bigbillheck » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 5:14 PM UTC

thepasswordis wrote: post #71

It's because we stopped focusing on creating things, and instead started laser focusing on making sure that everybody gets exactly the same amount of everything all the time. It's ridiculous. We are trust fund children who don't understand where the money came from, and it will be our undoing. Twitter, NYT, CNN, Fox News, MSNBC and the like have monetized dividing us, and they have a multi-billion dollar a year budge…

I think you've got a lot more ideology than facts going on in this post.

> started laser focusing on making sure that everybody gets exactly the same amount of everything all the time

This doesn't sound at all like the America in which I've lived my whole life. Just in my life alone there's been Reagan's legacy, Clinton's welfare reforms, Bush's tax cuts, the 2008 financial crisis and the fallout, and that's when I started to stop paying attention because it was getting too depressing.

Looking at China, they're at least trying to eliminate poverty whereas here it seems like our goal is to make it worse, and help a few billionaires get richer along the way.

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#214

Post by thinker403 » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 5:15 PM UTC

There's an imbalance with information here, just like there was with the USSR back in the day. The U.S. is an open book that anyone can peer into; China is the opposite. Complicating matters is that the main lens into the U.S. is through 24 hr news orgs that long ago abandoned objectivity for sensationalism. It's easy to conclude something is in decline if all you ever see is perpetual chaos. The reality is, mostly, a lot more chill and nuanced.

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#215

Post by shatnersbassoon » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 5:18 PM UTC

newdude116 wrote: post #190

medium_burrito wrote: post #49

They have some massive negatives to deal with: - China is net food and energy importer. Look at last year for a preview of future food. The land they leased in Africa won't help in terms of climate shift, locusts, etc. Who is the number of one food and energy exporter? - China has an aeging population, and it's already a rapid shift. - China's infrastructure isn't as well built as other countries (see their most impo…

"China is net food and energy importer." Chinas wealth is based on neither. So what? Many rich countries import energy. BTW, China is serious about fusion and thorium reactors. " China has an aeging population, and it's already a rapid shift." Most countries do and this can still Change. "- China's infrastructure isn't as well built as other countries and it will start degrading, and maintenance is a pain." I am sure…

> the US fighting was negligible.

This is either ignorant or dishonest. Just because the US wasn't insanely profligate with lives, doesn't mean they didn't make a huge contribution to defeating Germany. Multiple German armies were defeated by the Western allies in Africa, Italy, France, the low countries and subsequently Germany. Germany's war production was crippled by USAAF and RAF bombing, and its transport was almost totally destroyed. Perhaps most importantly, Germany's ability to fuel its vehicles was removed by the bombing campaign. Literally thousands of 88mm guns were kept in the Reich because of the bombing, and these would have been on the Eastern front shredding Russians otherwise. Without this contribution, the USSR could at best have reached a stalemate. Anyone who denies this has an agenda.

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#216

Post by Glavnokoman » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 5:20 PM UTC

rebolek wrote: post #157

fnord77 wrote: post #51

> They say some Chinese officials are convinced that the eu will soon drop its Xinjiang-related sanctions, because Europe cannot recover from the pandemic without Chinese growth. Anyone else think they are grossly underestimating the EU?

Everyone is. That’s EU’s greatest strength.

:) You made my day!

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#217

Post by TheAdamAndChe » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 5:21 PM UTC

ceilingcorner wrote: post #208

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The democracy is still in a good shape despite some challenges. What political pathways do you see for correcting both our two-party system and increased gerrymandering? It seems to me like those two factors are large contributors to our increasing political polarization, and fixing them would require the political parties to behave irrationally from a game theory perspective.

Easy: give the individual states more responsibility. This has already begun. There is really no reason why California and Alabama need to have 100% of the same laws on highly contentious issues. It's not called the United States for nothing.

I'm sorry, I don't understand. How would increased state rights reverse gerrymandering within those states?

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#218

Post by ceilingcorner » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #217

ceilingcorner wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easy: give the individual states more responsibility. This has already begun. There is really no reason why California and Alabama need to have 100% of the same laws on highly contentious issues. It's not called the United States for nothing.

I'm sorry, I don't understand. How would increased state rights reverse gerrymandering within those states?

I think polarization across the country is mostly a consequence of too much centralization. The federal government has too much power, so the political parties organize themselves in that way. Everything becomes zero sum.

If states had more variation, I think you'd see less polarization, because the threat of a federal decision applying to everyone is far less of a worry.

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#219

Post by gruez » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 5:25 PM UTC

thepasswordis wrote: post #71

It's because we stopped focusing on creating things, and instead started laser focusing on making sure that everybody gets exactly the same amount of everything all the time. It's ridiculous. We are trust fund children who don't understand where the money came from, and it will be our undoing. Twitter, NYT, CNN, Fox News, MSNBC and the like have monetized dividing us, and they have a multi-billion dollar a year budge…

>We demonize people who create things. We demonize people who want to form communities, and we even demonize people who might dare to suggest that The United States is rightfully an example for the rest of the world.

>a school where they learn that math is racist, the united states is completely racist, white people are racist, trees are racist, grammar is racist, and that they should be skeptical and distrustful of their parents.

uhh what? that's a lot of background beliefs that you assume readers believe/know about.

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#220

Post by BTCOG » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 5:26 PM UTC

It's because we're too worried about participation trophies, gender pronouns, and PC garbage culture. It's become petty culture without any spine or backbone, whining about everything instead of doing anything. Minding everyone else's business instead of minding your own. Add to that all the misaligned government spending and cognitive dissonance. Factions upon factions of petty hedonistic groups. I also would not say this is not reversible.