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China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

economist.com

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Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#141

Post by umvi »

rafale wrote: post #15

The west is in decline because progressive values don't promote strength. They focus on class and are inherently divisive. Ironically, they only blossom in strong societies. The decline will allow other societies with a more conservative philosophy to take over and it will be their turn in a few centuries to succumb to the same tragedy. The baizuo tragedy.

This is overly simplistic. The west is in decline for tons of reasons in concert, not any one feel good reason. Identity politics/wokeism is just a symptom of a system already in decline, not the cause of it.

You could just as easily say that the internet is the reason the west is in decline because it allows loud minorities, corporations, and bad actors to amplify their voices and promote their agendas, sow division and discord, spread misinformation, and more. Which is also overly simplistic and not the sole reason for decline.

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#142

Post by starfallg »

fasteddie31003 wrote: post #90

I hope the world can exist with a strong China and a strong US. Why are they mutual exclusive? We both have our strengths and weaknesses.

China needs structural reform before it can exist harmoniously with the US and the rest of the advanced economies. The gap is just too big in terms of civil liberties and rule of law.

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#143

Post by bellyfullofbac »

pcbro141 wrote: post #69

Why did the US let its infrastructure get to such a bad state? And why are there so many dilapidated neighborhoods and literally crumbling schools? The US is filthy rich, couldn't they have fixed these things decades ago? Just spend hundreds of billions investing in neighborhoods that have historically been intentionally left to rot? Is it just disdain for the people who live in the crumbling areas? Serious question.…

Attempt of a serious answer: it seems like it's really Republican (party) ideology that government should be small enough to be able to be drowned in a bathtub, and any amount of money for the people is deemed sinful. Never mind that it makes sense to build good roads, fast trains, and even good schools to educate people.

Seems like the GOP has a "If we do x, that will prove our propaganda all this time has been wrong, and it's political suicide" problem. As an opposite example, they quickly agreed to Covid bailouts last year because blocking that money would've been an even faster way to commit political suicide.

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#144

Post by BitwiseFool »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #77

On an optimistic note, I am not convinced that China is going to win any cultural wars. America, for all its problems, still is essentially a leader for much of the developing world, at least in terms of culture. People watch American shows, know American celebrities, listen to American music, etc. This is facilitated by the fact that these cultural elements are pretty diverse and are open to immigrants. As in, a guy…

As Americans, I feel like we've gotten accustomed to the idea that soft-power means other nations consume our culture through media. We are used to the world listening to our music, watching our movies, and reading our books. We think that we influence the world through our superior and diverse culture. We want the rest of the world to be more like us.

But it seems like the Chinese Government isn't interested in evangelizing the "Chinese Way" around the world. They just want the other nations to enrich the Chinese Economy and fall-in-line during international disputes.

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#145

Post by [deleted] »

vict7 wrote: post #136
centimeter wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> putting that time toward actually cleaning up neighborhoods or tutoring underprivileged youth The US has tried again and again these naively optimistic programs targeting “neighborhoods” and “the youth”, to no avail whatsoever. The terrible reality is that the long-term prospects of a civilization are inexorably dominated by its demographics, and the demographics of the US are spiraling down towards disaster. We ha…

What sort of eugenicist bs is this. Do you have a single source to back up these claims?

[deleted]

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#146

Post by alert0 »

medium_burrito wrote: post #49

They have some massive negatives to deal with: - China is net food and energy importer. Look at last year for a preview of future food. The land they leased in Africa won't help in terms of climate shift, locusts, etc. Who is the number of one food and energy exporter? - China has an aeging population, and it's already a rapid shift. - China's infrastructure isn't as well built as other countries (see their most impo…

Agree with everything except the implications about Belt and Road. This was actually strategically clever by China. In 2012 they stopped purchasing (as much) US debt which stopped feeding our reserve currency system. Being a reserve currency requires a country to run persistent trade deficits, not the most sustainable but when everyone takes the inflow of USD and buys bonds, it feeds the USD back into the system allowing it to go on. China bucked this trend and instead started putting their money to work in Africa. This undermines the USD's position petty well.

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#147

Post by newdude116 »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #77

On an optimistic note, I am not convinced that China is going to win any cultural wars. America, for all its problems, still is essentially a leader for much of the developing world, at least in terms of culture. People watch American shows, know American celebrities, listen to American music, etc. This is facilitated by the fact that these cultural elements are pretty diverse and are open to immigrants. As in, a guy…

You know it all man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrQHPbISpHg

(Yes, you don't speak Chinese but their call her chocolate girl)

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#148

Post by hohohmm »

fasteddie31003 wrote: post #90

I hope the world can exist with a strong China and a strong US. Why are they mutual exclusive? We both have our strengths and weaknesses.

Exactly. China has never opposed a strong, healthy and positive US. It's the US that's getting increasingly poisonous over China, to maintain its hegemony. A change of political mindset could really see the world with two great countries with different but competitive systems that could learn from each other and see each other's shortcomings.

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#149

Post by MisterBastahrd »

thepasswordis wrote: post #71

It's because we stopped focusing on creating things, and instead started laser focusing on making sure that everybody gets exactly the same amount of everything all the time. It's ridiculous. We are trust fund children who don't understand where the money came from, and it will be our undoing. Twitter, NYT, CNN, Fox News, MSNBC and the like have monetized dividing us, and they have a multi-billion dollar a year budge…

It's funny you think that, because black folks in America have been saying for years that they deserve a cut of what was stolen from them, and the response is "we have ours, go pound sand."

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#150

Post by throwaway2048 »

pcbro141 wrote: post #91
rafale wrote: post #15

The west is in decline because progressive values don't promote strength. They focus on class and are inherently divisive. Ironically, they only blossom in strong societies. The decline will allow other societies with a more conservative philosophy to take over and it will be their turn in a few centuries to succumb to the same tragedy. The baizuo tragedy.

Progressives and 'woke politics' are the reason the US let its infrastructure crumble? I don't follow your logic. You are saying progressive weakness is the reason America has let its infrastructure crumble, and why America doesn't have universal healthcare, why its education system isn't as good as it should be? That sounds wrong. I see a lot of claims lately that 'woke politics' are the reason the US has let itself…

This thread is predictable degenerating into "Whatever my pet peeve is, is going to be the fall of western civilization"
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