Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

901–910 of 1001 posts

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#901

Post by eyelidlessness »

sjwright wrote: post #894
Nasrudith wrote: post #745

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like it hints at a nasty feedback loop. "Are they stuck in financial trouble because of poor impulse control or are they stuck with poor impulse control because of financial trouble?" Singular they that is. It is easier to think long term while feeling secure but not thinking long term can lead to becoming insecure. Not trying to make any moral or blame judgements here - just pondering origins of problems and…

There are many nasty feedback loops caused by severe poverty. Even the most basic things like being able to show up for a job interview in an arbitrary location at an arbitrary time wearing presentable clothing and a relaxed demeanour — try doing that when you can barely afford to use public transport and your daily schedule is rigidly monopolised by whatever terrible job/gig you currently rely upon to literally surv…

You’ve put this well. But you’ve also highlighted my only significant criticism of UBI. I’ve been poor. So poor getting on a bus was laughable: buying packaged ramen noodles was impossible. The notion that UBI is positioned to replace basic social services means past me couldn’t pay rent and eat again, because no matter how I tried to prioritize shelter rules don’t keep up with reality.

I’ll support UBI when it stops being a libertarian wet dream to eliminate all other social spending and becomes a supplementary cause that lets us re-examine social spending when we can see how it shifts if everyone has “basic needs” covered.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#902

Post by karaterobot »

psychometry wrote: post #337
ActorNightly wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USA needs better education so that people understand economics and labor markets, so they wont calling paid positions indentured servitude.

We need better education so that people stop voting against their own self-interest, in union elections and generally.

One of the things we discovered in the 20th century was that people do not always act rationally, even when it's in their own best interests. This cuts across political ideologies, education levels, income levels, race, religion; whatever. It's a feature of human beings.

Often when I hear that people need to be educated about some issue, what I understand the speaker to be implying is that the reason a person disagrees with them is due to ignorance, when that's often not the case. We may think we arrive at our opinions based on cold logic and inarguable facts, but in reality there are many more factors that influence all of us.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#903

Post by dev_tty01 »

quijoteuniv wrote: post #293
flavius29663 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$15 an hour is more than you can get in almost any place in Europe or the world for unskilled labor, what are you talking about?

While that might be right,You are not taking into account that in Europe you get free healthcare & education.

Ok, this is perhaps a pedantic rant, but this term "free healthcare" is not valid. Money came out of citizen's pay checks to pay for the healthcare.

Why do we keep using this term? There is no such thing as free healthcare. There is taxpayer paid healthcare. I'm not being critical of taxpayer paid healthcare. Those countries made that choice as to how they would pay for healthcare. Cool. Sounds like a good choice. But can we stop calling it "free" please.

Education is also not free... Rant off. Sorry for the interruption.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#904

Post by TuringNYC »

akudha wrote: post #880
gruez wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So let me get this straight: companies shouldn't be investing money into revitalizing impoverished areas?

Didn't Walmart do this in a lot of small towns? And sometimes just pack up and leave? What happens when they leave?

>> Didn't Walmart do this in a lot of small towns? And sometimes just pack up and leave? What happens when they leave?

I think a good question to ask before is what happens if they dont come in the first place? If I were a resident in a town wanting jobs, i'd probably be more excited about jobs arriving than the possibility they might eventually disappear.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#905

Post by hoophoop »

sjwright wrote: post #884
hoophoop wrote: post #846

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think being really broke greatly hinders your ability to think rationally. No: being really broke can cause a lot of anxiety that can lead to irrational behavior. But often a person has to choose between homelessness and crime and picks the latter as a rational choice , given the alternative. So please don't assume poor = "crazy" = criminal, it's a bit unkind.

When did tombert assume that poor = "crazy" = criminal? It's a bit unkind to take general thoughts about psychological pathways and unfairly reify them with the use of equality symbols.

> When did tombert assume that poor = "crazy" = criminal?

It's implied here:

"I think being really broke greatly hinders your ability to think rationally."

...by putting that sentence out alone without clarifying the context.

> psychological pathways

> unfairly reify

Are you feeling ok?

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#906

Post by iamleppert »

aarongray wrote: post #127

Speaking as someone who lives adjacent to Bessemer but who does not work at Amazon, you need to understand that Bessemer is a dying city, a slum. These were the best paying jobs that many of these workers had had in their entire lives, it is no wonder that a majority of them decided not to bite the hand that was feeding them.

That Union couldn’t manage to get the starting wage for their members to $15. I think that says it all about how ineffective they are as an organization.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#907

Post by dev_tty01 »

paxys wrote: post #616

"Here's exactly how these people should have voted" – legions of San Francisco software engineers making $550K/yr convinced that they know everything about the lives of warehouse workers in Bessemer, Alabama making $15/hr.

Yes. Incredible arrogance and clearly insinuates that the people of Bessemer are unable to think for themselves. 71% said no. That is a very clear majority. I think we need to trust the people on the front line with the discernment to make their own decisions. I've been around a lot of people without much formal education who were much wiser than most.

And please don't yell about Amazon misrepresenting things. I suspect these people are quite capable of detecting company BS. Give them some credit. Just because you don't agree with their choice doesn't mean their choice is wrong.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#908

Post by yocheckitdawg »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #670
gruez wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So let me get this straight: companies shouldn't be investing money into revitalizing impoverished areas?

It's complicated. When you're the only game in town you enter an ethical gray area where the community is your hostage. Things seem alright now but what happens when the mines run dry?

What a ridiculous way of looking at it. Companies are damned if they do, damned if they don't in the eyes of some, just by the very fact that they are a private entity motivated to make a profit.

Nevermind the fact that from my eyes looking at America from overseas, it seems like companies are the only institutions/organisations that are functioning even remotely in a socially optimal way.

Your government is a disaster and couldn't meaningfully manage the pandemic at all, academia is a disaster and is bankrupting your future, military is a disaster and has heavily underinvested in next generation weapons programs so they could spend more time bombing the middle East, your unions are self-serving enterprises (aren't schools in your most populous state STILL closed due to teacher's unions?), your newspaper are incredibly corrupt across the spectrum.

The only things that seem to work correctly are your companies which are still world-leading and world class. Amazon is a gem in your society, but demonised as if it is the source of all problems.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#910

Post by cbozeman »

motardo wrote: post #595
resto49 wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No objection that most of EU is better than the US in these regards, but Amazon warehouse workers get some of the best healthcare insurance that I’ve ever seen in the US. Similar to what the top-level-commenter pointed out, I guarantee that the warehouse jobs in Bessemer provide among the best healthcare available in the town. The US as a whole is awful at providing healthcare, but healthcare is a particular area whe…

I'm an Amazon warehouse worker in North Carolina. As far as health insurance, I pay 100% of the first $1500, then 10% of the next $15,000 (so $3000 total), then 0% of anything over $16,500. I wouldn't call that astonishing, but it is the minimum $0 monthly premium plan. Also, I'm generally happy at work. I basically feel well paid and well treated.

What exactly do you do there?

From what I understand, order picking there must be god awful, but being the receiving clerk might not be so bad. Being on-site IT might not be so bad. Certainly being the Director of Operations for that warehouse wouldn't be bad... at least I wouldn't think.

Post reply on HN