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Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

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Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#621

Post by colinmhayes »

FearlessNebula wrote: post #590
Diederich wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, you're not kidding. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bessemer,_Alabama#Economy "Crime increased following the rise in unemployment and social disruption from the decline of manufacturing industries in the area. As of 2019 Bessemer ranks first in terms of violent crimes for US cities with 25,000 or more people." Population has fallen from its peak in 1970 of 33k to 26k today. Thanks for the reference. EDIT: Also hom…

I'm stupid, but why does unemployment cause violent crime?

Choices are about incentives. If you feel you've got nothing to lose you're willing to risk it all.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#622

Post by mediaman »

motardo wrote: post #595
resto49 wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No objection that most of EU is better than the US in these regards, but Amazon warehouse workers get some of the best healthcare insurance that I’ve ever seen in the US. Similar to what the top-level-commenter pointed out, I guarantee that the warehouse jobs in Bessemer provide among the best healthcare available in the town. The US as a whole is awful at providing healthcare, but healthcare is a particular area whe…

I'm an Amazon warehouse worker in North Carolina. As far as health insurance, I pay 100% of the first $1500, then 10% of the next $15,000 (so $3000 total), then 0% of anything over $16,500. I wouldn't call that astonishing, but it is the minimum $0 monthly premium plan. Also, I'm generally happy at work. I basically feel well paid and well treated.

Do they have upgraded plans available for purchase, and are they pretty expensive or reasonable?

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#623

Post by missedthecue »

mschuster91 wrote: post #227
AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me personally is anti-monopoly. If a union can only operate by forming a workforce monopoly - something is wrong with the model itself.

Amazon and Walmart are local monopolies as the sole employer resp. shop around where they establish their locations. It is only natural to put up a collective against that monopoly.

Can you point me to one Amazon fulfillment center or Walmart superstore that doesn't have any restaurants, grocers, autoparts stores, hardware stores, janitorial services, shopping centers, retailers, courier and delivery services, or warehouses within 20 miles? All of those businesses draw from the same labor pool and compete with each other. I don't think your claim that Walmart and Amazon have monopsony power is accurate.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#624

Post by geitir »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #539
fartcannon wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a tragic way to frame it. The USA (and all the world governments) need to take care of it's poor people better so they don't have to choose indentured servitude over poverty. Edit: Added the bit about all the world governments

I agree though. If we ever want to have a chance at closing the gap between low and middle classes, then we need a basic income for people making under a certain income. Taking away the hardships of deciding whether to put gas in your car or get groceries isn't a decision someone should have to make. An extra $500-1K per month for those people would make a world of difference and ease a lot of those everyday decision…

That's completely incorrect. If you take the us population over 18, that is 209 million. If we assumed 5% are wealthy, that's 198 million who would need to get 1 million dollars. If you multiply 1 million by 198 million, you 198 trillion dollars.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#625

Post by winkeltripel »

01100011 wrote: post #579
Someone1234 wrote: post #132

HN is very consistently anti-union. My question is this: Where did you get information about unions? Because people keep mentioning their "bad reputation" and then start listing off a bunch of "facts" that read like they're bullets straight out of one of those anti-union videos during onboard at several major employers (Walmart, Target, Amazon, etc). So anti-union people exactly where does your information come from?…

Personal experience with unions. The unions at Boeing protect workers who do drugs and sleep on the job. The teamsters union in Boston prevented my small company from unloading a small amount of equipment from our truck ourselves(enforced with veiled threats). The longshoreman's union hands out jobs to well connected members and runs a racket. I'm not saying all unions are bad. I think many industries might benefit f…

Compare the scale of the harm that you see to the direct benefits: these huge unions getting each and every member a solid benefits package, and better pay rates, overtime or limited hours. Even non-union jobs pay better in areas with high union membership. Its one of the only tools with broad benefits to working-poor and lower-class at the cost of the non-working rich.

I think it's an unfair argument to say that unions need further regulation. Regulating them is how we've lost millions of union jobs to contractors, and where we keep seeing large strikes broken up by governments. Regulations often benefit large players over small ones. We'd rather see a plethora of smaller, niche unions, than just one massive union. Competition breeds capability.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#626

Post by bluGill »

avs733 wrote: post #593
ianbutler wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon Warehouse workers have medical coverage here too. So they're leaps and bounds ahead if you want to go ahead and say that. Of course the US healthcare system is broken so I know what you're getting at but I don't know that I want Amazon to pay their workers > $15 to subsidize a broken healthcare system for their workers I just want a functional healthcare system and for them to continue to make $15/hr.

> Amazon Warehouse workers have medical coverage here too. So they're leaps and bounds ahead if you want to go ahead and say that. incorrect. they are OFFERED healthcare coverage. By this use of the word have, I have a private jet because I could buy one if I had the resources.

They nearly universally take that offer (I don't even need to check to state that as a fact, the way US health care is everyone takes what they are offered). That is very different from an offer that nobody takes.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#627

Post by durkie »

macrowhat wrote: post #617
fartcannon wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a tragic way to frame it. The USA (and all the world governments) need to take care of it's poor people better so they don't have to choose indentured servitude over poverty. Edit: Added the bit about all the world governments

Wikipedia: Indentured servitude is a form of labor in which a person (an indenture) agrees to work without salary for a specific number of years for eventual compensation or debt repayment. "Without salary" "WITHOUT SALARY" And no, the government isn't your nanny. What a bunch of leftist doo-doo. Learn a bit about how horrible unions were in the 70s, and maybe I'll be convinced that "education" is actually a pathway…

if you're worried about how bad certain organizations were in the 70s i've got bad news for you about corporations

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#628

Post by kolinko »

radicalbyte wrote: post #344
specialist wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you comparing absolute dollar amounts? Is the cost of living the same every where?

If the post above about average houses costing $90k there are true, then the Amazon workers are earning about $26k a year, that's around 3.5x salary to house cost. I live in the middle of The Netherlands; the average house price is 360k and the average wage is 36k, that's around 10x salary to house cost. One important point: in almost all cases in NL both partners work, the general rule is that women work part time a…

You need to add costs of education, which is free in Netherlands, and multiple other social services (like public transit).

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#629

Post by colinmhayes »

whoknew1122 wrote: post #440
bhupy wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The warehouse workers get the same (extremely generous) healthcare as every other Amazon employee (due to ERISA). And even if they didn't, through the Affordable Care Act, someone at that income level can buy a "Gold" plan with low deductibles for $75/month. Obviously for Amazon workers, that's irrelevant. K-12 education is free, and once you factor in-state tuition and FAFSA, university is also basically free for an…

You're conflating FAFSA and Pell Grants. FAFSA is an application for student aid. Pell Grants are the federal government grants given to low-income students. The lifetime limit for Pell Grants is $6,3465. As a low-income student, you may also be eligible for Stafford loans, which are federal subsidized loans. Subsidized meaning that the government pays for any interest accrued while you're a part time student, in you…

If you were below the poverty line when you attended university you could've attended most state schools for free.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#630

Post by _-david-_ »

hypersoar wrote: post #514
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find it hard to believe great teachers would go to private schools in large numbers as a result of being in a union, private schools generally have lower pay, lower benefits, and lower standards. I don't know where you lived, but this is the opposite of the situation in most places. Private schools attract people who will pay private school tuition because they offer higher standards. In my limited experience wit…

In 2011-2012, the average pay for a full-time public school teacher was $56,410. For a private school teacher, it was $40,200. https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d13/tables/dt13_211.10.a...

It might not be accurate since many religious institutions have schools where nuns, monks, priests, etc work as teachers. They often times do not get paid or make basically minimum wage. Do you have any numbers that take that into account?
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