Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#431

Post by mariksolo » Fri, Apr 09, 2021, 5:31 PM UTC

tablespoon wrote: post #413

gruez wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So let me get this straight: companies shouldn't be investing money into revitalizing impoverished areas?

> So let me get this straight: companies shouldn't be investing money into revitalizing impoverished areas? No, they should do so, just not be so exploitative about it (e.g. deliberately going into areas full of desperate people, for the reason of using that desperation to exert maximum control with minimum accountability).

So your issue is specifically with the mindset of the company, not the actions themselves? Why would a company ever do anything out of the goodness of their hearts? Shouldn't we just be looking at the result of them following market incentives?

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#432

Post by throwaway0a5e » Fri, Apr 09, 2021, 5:31 PM UTC

psychometry wrote: post #337

ActorNightly wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USA needs better education so that people understand economics and labor markets, so they wont calling paid positions indentured servitude.

We need better education so that people stop voting against their own self-interest, in union elections and generally.

You mean like all those inner city women who constantly vote for gun control despite easy access to hot lead being the best way they can protect themselves from violence?

Or are we talking about the hicks that vote against government healthcare and social safety nets despite the fact that they would themselves benefit?

"Voting against their interest" is just how the ivory tower crowd derides the poor for sticking to their ideological guns even when it doesn't benefit them. The poor have opinions and beliefs and making sacrifices in the name of their beliefs does not make them stupid.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#433

Post by smithza » Fri, Apr 09, 2021, 5:31 PM UTC

bhupy wrote: post #323

quijoteuniv wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While that might be right,You are not taking into account that in Europe you get free healthcare & education.

The warehouse workers get the same (extremely generous) healthcare as every other Amazon employee (due to ERISA). And even if they didn't, through the Affordable Care Act, someone at that income level can buy a "Gold" plan with low deductibles for $75/month. Obviously for Amazon workers, that's irrelevant. K-12 education is free, and once you factor in-state tuition and FAFSA, university is also basically free for an…

Also, population for the city is near 25k. A small fraction of those folks enjoy the benefits of this healthcare given by working for Amazon.

Furthermore, it is a bad historical precedent to rely on employers for healthcare. This was a poor side-effect of the wage-hike stoppages during WWII that was later tax-exempted through federal law. It was never well thought out.

Finally, how many people in this town feel they have equal opportunity for social mobility? Decades of economic stagnation and degradation have thrown any plausible arguments towards a "meritocracy/American dream/everyone has an equal chance at success" out the window.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#434

Post by fearling » Fri, Apr 09, 2021, 5:31 PM UTC

nathanappere wrote: post #330

fearling wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Education is free up til college in the US and the healthcare for Amazon warehouse workers is the same as for their engineers and Jeff Bezos.

You mean costs the same and as a result is entirely a function of how well you're paid in order to be able to afford better coverage?

Decide for yourself how to think about affording these plans: https://www.amazon.jobs/en/landing_pages/benefitsoverview-us

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#435

Post by slantedview » Fri, Apr 09, 2021, 5:32 PM UTC

tannhauser23 wrote: post #167

sgift wrote: post #54

Next round is already called: "BREAKING: @RWDSU says that Amazon illegally interfered in the #BAmazonUnion vote in Bessemer, and the union will be filing unfair labor practice charges with the NLRB." https://twitter.com/GrimKim/status/1380541382490738690

They do this every time they lose a unionization vote.

You think every union vote involves the company secretly and illegally cajoling the USPS to install a mail box, monitored by the company, right by the warehouse entrance?

https://twitter.com/MorePerfectUS/status/1380245193924878337

This was plainly illegal and tainted the vote.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#436

Post by Red_Leaves_Flyy » Fri, Apr 09, 2021, 5:32 PM UTC

bhupy wrote: post #323

quijoteuniv wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While that might be right,You are not taking into account that in Europe you get free healthcare & education.

The warehouse workers get the same (extremely generous) healthcare as every other Amazon employee (due to ERISA). And even if they didn't, through the Affordable Care Act, someone at that income level can buy a "Gold" plan with low deductibles for $75/month. Obviously for Amazon workers, that's irrelevant. K-12 education is free, and once you factor in-state tuition and FAFSA, university is also basically free for an…

Wtf?

I need more information about that health care plan. Last time I looked at the market I was looking at worse premiums, coverage, and limits and making garbage pay.

My plan is $500/mo from me and $1500 from my employer with, iirc, 8000 max oop

Edit: I reviewed the plans they offer. Mine is significantly better, excluding the max oop. Anyone know what the costs are for for the plans?

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#437

Post by foepys » Fri, Apr 09, 2021, 5:32 PM UTC

bhupy wrote: post #323

quijoteuniv wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While that might be right,You are not taking into account that in Europe you get free healthcare & education.

The warehouse workers get the same (extremely generous) healthcare as every other Amazon employee (due to ERISA). And even if they didn't, through the Affordable Care Act, someone at that income level can buy a "Gold" plan with low deductibles for $75/month. Obviously for Amazon workers, that's irrelevant. K-12 education is free, and once you factor in-state tuition and FAFSA, university is also basically free for an…

Do they get free university with an interest free loan of which they only have to pay 50% and only up to 10,000€ back? And 20+ days vacation days plus 6 weeks paid sick leave plus 18 months job guarantee in case of a longer healing process while being paid 60% of their last wage? Plus 1-2 years unemployment benefits, also at 60% of last wage? Plus 60% paid for up to a year in case of being on furlough during a pandemic? Plus parental leave of 12+2 months at 67% of last wage? Plus full health care regardless of being employed? Plus no deductibles, limits, or copay for any health issue?

Talking about Germany here by the way.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#438

Post by tablespoon » Fri, Apr 09, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #132

HN is very consistently anti-union. My question is this: Where did you get information about unions? Because people keep mentioning their "bad reputation" and then start listing off a bunch of "facts" that read like they're bullets straight out of one of those anti-union videos during onboard at several major employers (Walmart, Target, Amazon, etc). So anti-union people exactly where does your information come from?…

> My question is this: Where did you get information about unions? Because people keep mentioning their "bad reputation" and then start listing off a bunch of "facts" that read like they're bullets straight out of one of those anti-union videos during onboard at several major employers (Walmart, Target, Amazon, etc).

Realistically? Probably libertarian advocacy literature coupled with a few confirmatory anecdotes that may or may not be from first hand experience. When I was anti-union, that's where it came from.

You also have to keep in mind the HN is run by a VC firm, and a lot of its culture was set by aspiring capitalists hoping to win the startup lottery. That's going to lead to certain predicable biases (e.g. taking the perspective of a business owner even if you're unlikely to ever successfully be one).

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#439

Post by unionanswer » Fri, Apr 09, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #132

HN is very consistently anti-union. My question is this: Where did you get information about unions? Because people keep mentioning their "bad reputation" and then start listing off a bunch of "facts" that read like they're bullets straight out of one of those anti-union videos during onboard at several major employers (Walmart, Target, Amazon, etc). So anti-union people exactly where does your information come from?…

Worked in a union for a few years.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#440

Post by whoknew1122 » Fri, Apr 09, 2021, 5:35 PM UTC

bhupy wrote: post #323

quijoteuniv wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While that might be right,You are not taking into account that in Europe you get free healthcare & education.

The warehouse workers get the same (extremely generous) healthcare as every other Amazon employee (due to ERISA). And even if they didn't, through the Affordable Care Act, someone at that income level can buy a "Gold" plan with low deductibles for $75/month. Obviously for Amazon workers, that's irrelevant. K-12 education is free, and once you factor in-state tuition and FAFSA, university is also basically free for an…

You're conflating FAFSA and Pell Grants. FAFSA is an application for student aid. Pell Grants are the federal government grants given to low-income students. The lifetime limit for Pell Grants is $6,3465. As a low-income student, you may also be eligible for Stafford loans, which are federal subsidized loans. Subsidized meaning that the government pays for any interest accrued while you're a part time student, in your six-month post-graduation grace period, or other deferred status.

The estimated cost of attendance at one of the closest public universities, the University of Alabama at Birmingham, has a yearly estimated cost of attendance of $28,695 for in-state students.

University isn't 'basically free' for low income students. My parents lived below the poverty line their entire lives. I graduated with my bachelor's degree and $80k worth of loan debt.

Sure low-income students might be eligible for needs-based grants and scholarships offered at their college. But federal support for low-income students is pitiful and college for those students is a far cry from free.