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Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

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Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#161

Post by trackmenot »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #81
kadomony wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the folks who vote aren't really the type to sit down and think long-term. $50/month in dues getting them +$2-3k more annually every two years? They won't do the math and see they'd make a net profit of whatever that annual income increase is minus $600. There was some great video floating around recently of a forklift operator or something who explained what his union dues got him and he was so informed and…

> " ...why you would vote against your own collective interest ... " > " ...Most of the folks who vote aren't really the type to sit down and think long-term... " Why do people call others dumb (and let's not kid ourselves, that's just what these phrases are a cultured, genteel way of saying) and then are surprised when said others don't vote for the causes they believe in? Don't they realize that casting aspersions…

> Why do people call others dumb (and let's not kid ourselves, that's just what these phrases are a cultured, genteel way of saying) and then are surprised when said others don't vote for the causes they believe in?

How does calling people dumb affect the way they vote? In fact, if me and others calling people who vote against unionization dumb makes them more likely to vote against unionization, it clearly means that they are not primarily considering their self-interest, since whatever I and other leftists say or think is completely irrelevant.

If I say "you're an idiot for voting for Trump" and that makes you more likely to vote for Trump, then, I'm sorry to say, you proved my point.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#162

Post by peytn »

staticman2 wrote: post #112
Loughla wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relax. I guess I should've said - "What I perceive as your own collective interest," although I would argue that was implied. I didn't intend to be arrogant at all, I am legitimately confused. The two jobs that I was in a union, the union was massively beneficial to my life. That is where my perspective came from.

The poster that attacked you is repeating a conservative pundit talking point I've seen. Call me cynical but I suspect if the vote had gone pro-union and you had written "Don't the workers realize unions are against their own economic interests?" said poster would have written "Amen!" rather than calling you paternalistic.

I dunno, it’s better on HN to give people the benefit of the doubt. The overlap of software engineer and conservative punditry consumer is pretty small relatively speaking. It’s not like the ideas put forth are too convoluted for somebody to have on their own.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#163

Post by tyingq »

freewilly1040 wrote: post #147
tyingq wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, the union missed an opportunity to fix a lot of misinformation: https://www.google.com/search?q=amazon+union+vote+%22%24500%...

What is this supposed to demonstrate? Searching 500/lifetime would also turn up Google results. Still haven’t seen an actual article reporting the figure as monthly

Sigh, okay, if you don't want to scan the results (https://imgur.com/a/ZPXCmu9), which did have other keywords, here's a few. There are many more.

https://apnews.com/article/what-to-know-amazon-union-vote-ex...

https://www.wmcactionnews5.com/2021/03/30/lighting-fuse-amaz...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/amazon-labor-union-push-alabama...

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#164

Post by kgin »

rmah wrote: post #92

Am I the only one who thinks $500/mo seems excessive for union dues? That's $60k/yr in dues for every 10 workers. Does a union really need a full time rep for every 10 or 20 members? If, perhaps, half of that goes to "strike insurance", that would mean $15k/member over 5 years. Which would be enough replace wages(at $15/hr) for six months. Do they really anticipate a six month strike every 5 years?

Actual dues amount for the union weren't proposed yet, afaik. The two figures floating around were based on two different interpretations of the Amazon anti-union website doitwithoutdues.com

> Amazon... created a website for employees that tells them they’ll have to pay $500 in union dues a month, taking away money that could go to dinners and school supplies. https://apnews.com/article/what-to-know-amazon-union-vote-ex...

> She said she felt insulted by some of Amazon’s anti-union efforts, particularly the company’s statements to the staff that they would be required to pay nearly $500 in union dues every year. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/02/business/amazon-union-bes...

Actual site just says $500, leaving the interval up to interpretation https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:jMRHfH...

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#165

Post by bradleyjg »

jasode wrote: post #123
Loughla wrote: post #9

I absolutely do not understand why you would vote against your own collective interest for a small amount of union dues. That is not snark, it's a real statement. I legitimately do not understand it. Can someone who works/worked one of these jobs please explain it to me? I am so confused by how lopsided this was.

>I absolutely do not understand why you would vote against your own collective interest It's because unions in America cannot guarantee the existence of the job . Yes, unions can force negotiations but they have no power to force the corporation to keep the factory open . (E.g. workers of Bakers union go on strike and in response, Hostess closes the factory.) That's the tradeoff of possible negative consequences that…

Hard to believe this isn’t the top reply. You don’t need to go off into some long discussion about the philosophy of collective action. This vote was no because if it had been yes the likely consequence would have been all the voters being out of a job.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#166

Post by Ericson2314 »

Loughla wrote: post #9

I absolutely do not understand why you would vote against your own collective interest for a small amount of union dues. That is not snark, it's a real statement. I legitimately do not understand it. Can someone who works/worked one of these jobs please explain it to me? I am so confused by how lopsided this was.

Also dues are not compulsive because it's a "write to work" state. Insanity.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#167

Post by tannhauser23 »

sgift wrote: post #54

Next round is already called: "BREAKING: @RWDSU says that Amazon illegally interfered in the #BAmazonUnion vote in Bessemer, and the union will be filing unfair labor practice charges with the NLRB." https://twitter.com/GrimKim/status/1380541382490738690

They do this every time they lose a unionization vote.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#168

Post by boublepop »

dylan604 wrote: post #30
Loughla wrote: post #9

I absolutely do not understand why you would vote against your own collective interest for a small amount of union dues. That is not snark, it's a real statement. I legitimately do not understand it. Can someone who works/worked one of these jobs please explain it to me? I am so confused by how lopsided this was.

I absolutely abhor modern day versions of unions. They have not done enough to separate themselves in my eyes from the misguided activities that brought them their current negative reputations. However, I absolutely understand the need, and feel sorry for those stuck in a sitation where union type help is needed. If there was a way to wipe out existing unions and start fresh where nobody from leadership of exisiting…

The more I read about Unions in America the more I am befuddled. Don’t you have membership elections for the leadership? How do you even decide who the leadership is then?

If you do have elections, then your comment is akin to a republican proclaiming that democracy doesn’t work, but would work in principle but only of the current leadership was replace with Donal Trump.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#169

Post by Ericson2314 »

bko wrote: post #44
Loughla wrote: post #9

I absolutely do not understand why you would vote against your own collective interest for a small amount of union dues. That is not snark, it's a real statement. I legitimately do not understand it. Can someone who works/worked one of these jobs please explain it to me? I am so confused by how lopsided this was.

Assuming you're not an Amazon warehouse employee, but they have more skin in the game than you. So presumably their opinion is more informed and reasoned. I don't think its as clear cut as "in your interest". I certainly wouldn't vote to unionize my profession and I would even go as far as avoiding unionized fields. I prefer to have a direct relationship with my employer. I stay away from organizations that have a ta…

Nobody in Alabama is going to have this "direct relationship" with the powers that be in Seattle either way. What a joke.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#170

Post by rorykoehler »

Loughla wrote: post #9

I absolutely do not understand why you would vote against your own collective interest for a small amount of union dues. That is not snark, it's a real statement. I legitimately do not understand it. Can someone who works/worked one of these jobs please explain it to me? I am so confused by how lopsided this was.

Gaslit to death
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