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China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

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Re: China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

#181

Post by Daho0n »

anvandare wrote: post #155
Daho0n wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a chance. The US would instantly have at least one carrier sunk minutes after declaring and that alone could break morale. It's like saying the US would go to war with Russia over Ukraine. Over Taiwan war is either not going to happen or it will be nuclear war. Whichs sounds most likely? The US will sanction and draw lots of red lines in the sand and then tug its tail between its legs.

>The US would instantly have at least one carrier sunk minutes after declaring and that alone could break morale. Isn't that the exact reasoning which led to the attack on Pearl Harbor? "One quick strike and they'll be out of the war..." >The US will sanction and draw lots of red lines in the sand and then tug its tail between its legs. And that's the kind of reasoning that led to Ukraine being invaded by Russia. The…

In the pearl harbor analogy the US would be Japan, believing a naval force could win.

>And that's the kind of reasoning that led to Ukraine being invaded by Russia.

Yes, the US will draw lines and do nothing. Just like with Ukraine.

PRC sailing a carrier fleet just outside US waters is absolutely acceptable. The US made it so by doing the exact same thing to everyone else. It's only a matter of time before they have the capability. The big difference is that the US might go to war over such a thing unlike anybody else.

Another superpower is needed to stop the aggression by the US. US navel fleets belong in US waters. US bases belongs only on US land. If it takes PRC to do this then I'll happily cheer them along.

Re: China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

#182

Post by archibaldJ »

Daho0n wrote: post #149
archibaldJ wrote: post #73

Whenever you advise a ruler in the way of Tao, Counsel him not to use force to conquer the universe. For this would only cause resistance. Thorn bushes spring up wherever the army has passed. Lean years follow in the wake of a great war. Just do what needs to be done. Never take advantage of power. Achieve results, Because this is the natural way. Achieve results, But not through violence. Force is followed by loss o…

So your opinion is HK became awful (thorns, weak) because of British imperialism? Seems to me this doesn't make any sense otherwise in context. Force is what took it from China and force is what was used in an attempt to keep status quo.

It's interesting how my remark on CCP was quite appreciated with upvotes before it was swarmed with downvotes by people like you who impetuously jumped the conclusion shark too quickly.

Perchance there is an empirical relationship when a population grows to a sufficiently large n that sneakiness would be rightfully ignored as a function of implicitness, which is perhaps the trajectory in which hn-as-a-community is embracing a more reddit-ish sentiment. Hmm I guess it's a feature and not a bug?

Re: China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

#183

Post by hui-zheng »

dschuler wrote: post #180
tarboreus wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's to say? The protests were against China's violation of the two systems agreement. There has been violence, detention, and suppression from China at every turn. Most of the protests have been nonviolent. I think with major protest movements, the question becomes, is the cause worth the unrest? Unrest is a negative in itself, and always results in, at mnimum, damage to property and disruption of life and also mo…

| Most of the protests have been nonviolent. That's not true. There have been countless violent protests that have destroyed shops owned by mainland companies (like bakeries, nothing particularly nationalistic), set fire to and destroyed MTR (subway) stations, thrown petrol bombs at other unarmed civilians who disagreed and the police of course, and beat a guy in the head with a large pipe for removing bricks in the…

I think you avoided addressing the most important part of the comment above.

| If you're reading this in China, or are native Chinese, I ask you...do you feel there would be consequences for you if you spoke up in defense of the protests? Put aside whether you think the protests are a good idea or not. If you defended them publicly, what would happen? Whether or not you support the protests, I think you should consider that question, and decide if you like the answer.

It's ok if you don't want to address it, but maybe you shall take some time to think about why.

Re: China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

#184

Post by ChemSpider »

Daho0n wrote: post #148
ChemSpider wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if you are correct, the CCP could/would organize a public vote in Tibet and Hongkong, just like France did in New Caledonia. That is how you handle such a question. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_New_Caledonian_independen...

Historically that is done when you either known the result will fall your way or you don't really care. If California might have a small risk of voting to leave the US do you think the government would hurry and let them vote or try to block it? I cannot think of a single example where there was a vote of independence where it wasn't either forced (by unrest, war, etc.) or the result was know or didn't matter much. V…

This is how it should be done:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_New_Caledonian_independen...

or of course:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Scottish_independence_ref...

Re: China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

#185

Post by tlear »

ekianjo wrote: post #174
tlear wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes short victorious war. Because taking over an island is so easy. Chinese economy is also completely dependent on imports. US does not need sail its carriers to Taiwan, it needs to park half a dozen attack subs on Chinese trade routes. Same applies to Taiwanese program to build indigenous electric subs with help of Japan, once even few those are complete the equation changes completely. PRC has no chance in hell…

> PRC has no chance in hell for an amphibious landing operation in Taiwan. So this is going to take quite a while. PRC would easily have air superiority in no time.

Which is irrelevant when you do not have lift capacity, landing assets or any ability to actually supply the landing force. They could MAYBE land a brigade(which they could not supply for any length of time), said brigade would get squashed during night counter attack on day 1.

Landing a modern military force ashore then suplying it requires immense naval capacity that PRC just does not have. They could obtain it but such buildup would be impossible to hide and would take time. Not to mention you need to practice actually doing it.. before D-day allies landed in Diep, in NA, Sicily and Italy. From zero to landing on beaches in Taiwan would make Galipolee seem like height of military genius.

Re: China passes Hong Kong “patriot” election law

#186

Post by gpetukhov »

xwolfi wrote: post #4

I m in HK and I don't know what to think. Between protestors destroying the streets like monkeys and the country punishing everyone using this as an excuse, we're well surrounded :D Hong Kong shouldn't be independent but is China the right country for us, is how I jokingly troll both extremes. End of the day nobody cares, we're still discussing who elect the mayor of the city and people are talking like we're losing…

I am also a foreigner living in HK. I am with you on this one. HK was and continues to be awesome.
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