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Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

sciencemag.org

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Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#211
post #87
post #38

There was a nice explanation of the finding in comic format from APS & PhD Comics: https://physics.aps.org/articles/v14/47

This sound like the hypothesized „subtle-matter“ as proposed by Dr. Klaus Volkamer [1]? - still looking for a better link than the Book… I’ll update this later [1] https://amzn.to/3mvvsWW

lol

Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#212

Physics noob question: is there any physical framework that does away with the concept of "force"? I know a bit about how it is reconceptualized as space-time deformation in the context of general relativity, but that's about it. It just seems like one of those inherently anthropocentric concepts that (potentially) holds us back from exploring something different?

> It just seems like one of those inherently anthropocentric concepts that (potentially) holds us back from exploring something different? This is something I struggle with. I know that physics originated from an experimental framework. We observe phenomena, then we try to come up with explanations for said phenomena, formulate hypothesis, then test them. That is fine. But this breaks down when the 'fundamental force…

At its essence, in the modern understanding, a force is an emergent phenomena arising out of the fact that a world (a spacetime filled with your particles) where two particles of opposite charge seem to move towards each other is more probable than a world where they don't.

This sounds silly but it's exactly the root cause in the current understanding and shoehorning in the word "force" in "force-carrying particles" is a stretch and causes this confusion. It's true that there would be no electromagnetic force without the photons. But photons and their likes are not the only way a "force" arises. For example, the Pauli exclusion principle can be seen as a "force" and it arises without photons with just electrons.

Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#213
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still need someone to ELI5 to me how space curvature model explains the attraction between two bodies that have a delta-v of 0.

An attempt at a true ELI5 is the bodies exist in what we know as spacetime, not as separate independent concepts of space and time which we perceive from our day to day experience, so we have to know a bit about the difference. Chiefly in spacetime everything always travels the same "speed" (c, the universal speed limit) and it's just a matter of how much of that speed appears as "traveling through space" and how muc…

That's the best explanation I've ever heard. I'd like to know if it really is mathematically rigorous. If so, bravo.

Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#214

Genuine question from ignorance. Is this related to this work at CERN? https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/mar/23/large-hadron...

Yes and no. It is two very different experimental situations, the magnetic moment is at rest (well, in an accelerator but the rest frame is defined by the muon) and the R_k anomaly is in an collision. On the other hand, as a theorists the immediate thing one thinks about is lepton universality, that the only difference between a electron and a muon is its mass, is violated. So there will be a lot of work this year on trying to explain both results at the same time.

Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#215
It’s simple. The universe is electromagnetic. The Bose-Einstein condensate is the aether in most dense form. Everything evaporates into lower densities by means of rotation via the torus and vortices. Everything is pressure finding equilibrium spread throughout densities in fluid. Easy to reason about. The sun is hollow and incompressible aether inside, which is why it’s cold. The surface is electromagnetic activated by the currents spread throughout the galaxy. Every sun is like a lamp. Every sun is a plasmoid. Outer space is least dense form of the aether. Sound makes matter.

Fun!

Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the essence of my point is that the number of sigmas is meaningless when you have a systematic error — in either the experiment or the theoretical estimate — all that the sigmas tell you is that the two are mismatched. If a mistake could happen once, a similar mistake could easily happen again, so we need to be extremely wary of taking the sigmas at face value. (Eg: the DAMA experiment reports dark matter detecti…

The systematic errors enter the sigma calculation, doesn’t it?

Cannot, because here we’re talking about “unknown unknowns”.

Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#217

I can't wait for PBS Spacetime to tell me what to think about this.

Am I the only one who barely understands anything from that show? Every episode I hear a dozen barely explained confusing terms with quantum this and higgs-field that. I feel like they care more about impressing me with how complicated this stuff is than they do about actually teaching me much. Maybe I'm just not the target audience :(

honestly i some times have the same problem sometimes, but I think it is because there is just so much background that you have to grok before you understand the discussion being had. And as that is not part of my knowledge domain I haven't spent enough time to pick it up as it will probably never effect me my daily life.

Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An attempt at a true ELI5 is the bodies exist in what we know as spacetime, not as separate independent concepts of space and time which we perceive from our day to day experience, so we have to know a bit about the difference. Chiefly in spacetime everything always travels the same "speed" (c, the universal speed limit) and it's just a matter of how much of that speed appears as "traveling through space" and how muc…

That's the best explanation I've ever heard. I'd like to know if it really is mathematically rigorous. If so, bravo.

It's 1:1 with the relations in the equations up until the analogy of warped Euclidean space changing the vector at which point the description is functionally very similar but relativity follows very different (but also somewhat similar in a way) mathematical mechanics to the vector changing.

The "spacetime speed vector" is more formally the four-velocity and it's true that the norm of this 3 component space 1 component time vector is strictly tied to c. At the same time the four-velocity doesn't actually mathematically behave like a euclidean vector space vector where you can just add another like vector describing the effects of the warping and call it a day. In reality you have to run it through the metric tensor first (some function for the given instance that describes the geometry of warped spacetime) to get things in a coordinate space that is usable. Once you have that you actually have to run it through the geodesic equation to see what the acceleration will be as using the mapped four-vector alone will only tell you about the current velocity components in your coordinate space not the effect of the spacetime warping on something in them. These kinds of differences are the bits I swept under the rug as "nuance in how things actually change" but the net concept of the four-vector shifting components due to the warping of spacetime as an object moves along its world line is 100% the net result.

Also I can't really take credit for the method of explanation, just some of the simplified wording. I do find this explanation not only infinitely more accurate but actually easier to understand than the damn rubber sheet analogies or even improved/3D space warping analogies as they still leave out the time portion of the spacetime gradient which actually plays a bigger role in these examples.

Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#219
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lowercase Sigma

Just to expand a bit, the sigma symbol is a standard symbol used to indicate the standard deviation of a measurement, and standard deviation is roughly a measure of how much variation there is within a data set (and consequently how confident you can be in your measurement). So when they say that the theoretical result is now 4.2 sigma (units of standard deviation) away from the experimental result instead of 2.7 sig…

> Again, this assumes both that there were no errors made in the experiment

This is worth repeating a lot when explaining sigma (even in a great and comprehensive explanation such as yours): Statistical anomalies are only relevant when the experiment itself is sound.

Imagine you are trying to see whether two brands of cake mix have different density (maybe you want to get a good initial idea whether they could be the same cake mix). You can do this by weighing the same amount (volume) of cake mix repeatedly, and comparing the mean value for weight measurements of either brand. That works well, but it totally breaks down if you consistently use a glass bowl for one brand, and a steel bowl for the other brand. You will get very high units of sigma, but not because of the cake mix.

Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#220
post #38

There was a nice explanation of the finding in comic format from APS & PhD Comics: https://physics.aps.org/articles/v14/47

They mystery here is why that comic image that is inlined into the page loads so slowly, but if you click on it while it is loading, you get a pop-up which shows the whole darn thing almost instantly, at what looks like the same resolution, even as the in-line one is still loading. Spooky quantum effect, there!

NoScript lets you peek at a parallel universe in which the image pretty much instantly.

I didn't feel the need to click anything.

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