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Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

reuters.com

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Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#321

Post by smoe »

Alupis wrote: post #142
tw04 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you want the government to force private companies to continue doing business with someone they no longer wish to provide services to? We aren't talking protected class here, we're talking private companies picking and choosing who to do business with via non-discriminatory means. That's called a free market. Will they be restored if they're proven innocent? Maybe. Maybe not. Again, that's called a free market.

At a certain point, these platforms have such enormous, unprecedented influence and control over public discourse, that they aught to be thought of differently than, say a restaurant refusing service to a guy without a shirt or shoes on. We're clearly in uncharted territory, when it comes to the control and release of information. Just using Twitter and Facebook for example - they've silenced the second-most voted fo…

> he is a former US President - we aught to know what he thinks

Honest question: Why? It is a bit my outside perspective that the US has too big of person cult thing going. Not just in politics and independent of brand.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#322

Post by rdiddly »

tw04 wrote: post #111
redm wrote: post #8

"The company said users will be able to report such behaviors but it may also investigate cases proactively, for instance if there is a verified news report that a user has been arrested." So we've arrived at "innocent until accused" instead of "innocent until proven guilty"? And if proven guilty, they will both be punished under the law, and again by companies like Twitch? If proven innocent will they be restored? W…

So you want the government to force private companies to continue doing business with someone they no longer wish to provide services to? We aren't talking protected class here, we're talking private companies picking and choosing who to do business with via non-discriminatory means. That's called a free market. Will they be restored if they're proven innocent? Maybe. Maybe not. Again, that's called a free market.

It seems to me excluding even convicted criminals, is discriminatory. Let's pretend we're talking about an "ordinary" crime like armed robbery, instead of one of the ones the news media like to obsess about (which would be terrorism, hate crimes, child porn, and mass shootings - and back in the day that list would've included the Mob). Once the ordinary armed robber has been convicted and served their sentence, they come out of prison and face enormous barriers and discrimination, and that's not exactly fair. It's not clear from the article what Twitch will do in those cases though; all they do is define a list of exotic "misconduct" activities, most of which are crimes (and by the way, ctrl-F "crim" yields zero results in the page). I don't see a link to the original announcement they're reporting on, and I have to admit that I don't actually care enough to go hunt it down from the horse's mouth, but that is usually better.

Anyway on to the "free market." I have yet to see one in action. There is always meddling by unfairly-advantaged players and competition is never perfect. But more to the point, a free market is not magic or a god or even intelligent, and doesn't necessarily make good decisions on behalf of humans. It knows nothing of what's good or what's right. The one thing it does well is allocate finite or scarce resources. But humanity is not a resource, and even at their core task, markets make mistakes all the time.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#323

Post by numpad0 »

tw04 wrote: post #156
Alupis wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At a certain point, these platforms have such enormous, unprecedented influence and control over public discourse, that they aught to be thought of differently than, say a restaurant refusing service to a guy without a shirt or shoes on. We're clearly in uncharted territory, when it comes to the control and release of information. Just using Twitter and Facebook for example - they've silenced the second-most voted fo…

>How can we, as a society, claim to value free speech, yet allow social discourse platforms to censor and silence political enemies? Quite easily. Freedom of speech is freedom from government suppression of that speech - it's quite clear in the constitution. Freedom of speech doesn't mean I or anyone else has to give you a platform to speak from.

I can’t get this sorted out in my brain but y’all think self-help with breach of peace(had to look up that phrase) ought to be casually tolerated in a modern nation...?

...nevermind, I just realized that US is a union of States where a repossession man just casually walk into front yards and tow away a Camry from debtors.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#324

Post by otterley »

dagw wrote: post #276
newbie789 wrote: post #250

Coming from the perspective of someone that was an admin of a medium-large forum back in the vBulletin heyday of the early 2000s, I’m somewhat amused by people getting angry at moderation decisions. The rules were pretty clear: This is my website. I pay the bills and maintain it. Here are some clear rules that if you break them, you will be punished with a ban/suspension/shadow an/redirect to goatse upon login/etc. a…

The significant difference is I (assume) no one depended on your forum for earning a significant part of their income. Once you set yourself as a place where you want people come and earn money, then banning them, and thus depriving them of something of real monetary value, takes on and entire different set of nuances.

Building your business on someone else's property subjects you to a material risk that the owner may someday kick you out. Being a responsible business owner means you recognize that risk and mitigate it as needed for business continuity, and have contingency plans in the event that it happens.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#325

Post by kstrauser »

kevinpet wrote: post #141
kstrauser wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's such a huge grey area, though. On one extreme: I work at a desk job and it'd be insane for my employer to fire me for getting a speeding ticket doing 70 in a 65 zone. On the other: if I were shown in a CNN video carrying a swastika flag in a parade, I absolutely 100% expect I'd be jobless by the time I got home. I wouldn't pause for a moment at an employment contract that says the latter violates their rules.

Not in California. Political activity off the clock is legally protected. Because it isn't ever actually carrying a swastika flag. It's supporting the opposite side of a current contentious issue like abortion.

That's absolutely not what I've seen in the news. No one's "canceling" run-of-the-mill conservatives for run-of-the-mill conservative views, but there've been literal swastika flags in alt-right parades.

I have and will cheerfully work alongside people with whom I have significant political disagreements. I absolutely would not share an office with, say, an actual white supremacist. That's a hostile work environment and I want nothing to do with it.

Edit: There's a wide gulf between "political activity" and the stuff I'm talking about. You're a Republican? Fine, I'll discuss this with you over lunch and we can have fun teasing each other about our various beliefs. Get arrested storming the capitol? Yeah, that's a jobstopper.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#327

Post by indymike »

tw04 wrote: post #111
redm wrote: post #8

"The company said users will be able to report such behaviors but it may also investigate cases proactively, for instance if there is a verified news report that a user has been arrested." So we've arrived at "innocent until accused" instead of "innocent until proven guilty"? And if proven guilty, they will both be punished under the law, and again by companies like Twitch? If proven innocent will they be restored? W…

So you want the government to force private companies to continue doing business with someone they no longer wish to provide services to? We aren't talking protected class here, we're talking private companies picking and choosing who to do business with via non-discriminatory means. That's called a free market. Will they be restored if they're proven innocent? Maybe. Maybe not. Again, that's called a free market.

> we're talking private companies picking and choosing who to do business with via non-discriminatory means.

The phone company can't cut you off because they don't like your behavior or who your associate with. Why should Twitch be able to? Twitch is a communication platform, too.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#328

Post by throwaway0a5e »

ctdonath wrote: post #275
andybak wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that works up to a certain scale but it's insufficient if you're Facebook or Twitter. Now - is Twitch more like those or is it more like "Bob's Forum"?

There is no bright line between Facebook and Bob’s Forum.

There's no bright line between a wheelbarrow and a bulk freighter but even Hellen Keller could tell you they're very different.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#329

Post by otterley »

redm wrote: post #8

"The company said users will be able to report such behaviors but it may also investigate cases proactively, for instance if there is a verified news report that a user has been arrested." So we've arrived at "innocent until accused" instead of "innocent until proven guilty"? And if proven guilty, they will both be punished under the law, and again by companies like Twitch? If proven innocent will they be restored? W…

The reason we have a high standard for criminal convictions is that your liberty or life can be taken away by the state, and the cost of a mistake is therefore high.

Here we are talking about... the inability to show yourself playing video games to others.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#330

Post by ttt0 »

Veen wrote: post #53
Bud wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Yes, mob justice and public humiliation are very useful when people do and think things you don't like. Just what we need to deeply heal our damaged society.

There is nothing useful or healing about it. You can do that to a single person, not to a half of your country.
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