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Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#311

Post by ska »

sorokod wrote: post #247
rgifford wrote: post #175

A friend of mine decided to pursue music production around the same time I started in software engineering. We're both 20 somethings. We swap war stories now and then. I get to hear about how he's working with his mentor to do vocal production on a track getting pitched for Maroon 5, The Chainsmokers, etc. Sometimes the tracks take -- the artist likes them and decides to move forward. Usually they don't and it's a lo…

In what way are they "crazy talented" if they dont author the lyrics or the music? Is it meant cynically to describe the situation where the performer is just packaging for someone else's talant?

> Is it meant cynically to describe the situation where the performer is just packaging for someone else's talant?

Without comment on the state of pop music, you don't actually mean to suggest that performance isn't a talent of it's own? How are you going to and sell that idea to Yo-Yo Ma?

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#312

Post by problemPlaster »

kmeisthax wrote: post #223
Varriount wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps it's naive of me, but I can't help but look down on this kind of behavior. I know that tax money is rarely spent in the most efficient way possible, but (ideally) the point of taxes is that they go to benefit the general public. Moving just so one doesn't have to pay as much, after (presumably) living in the state for some time feels selfish and greedy.

Some states actually have laws specifically to prevent this. For example, if you work remote for a company based in NY, PA, CT, DE, AR, or NE; your income is taxable in that state regardless of where you live or work. This is known as a "convenience of the employer" test. In fact, before a certain SCOTUS ruling you couldn't even claim a refund on that tax for your residence state's tax return (and even after, that re…

>Some people also take the really risky step of throwing out their US citizenship

It is actually quite a lengthy application process to try and renounce your US Citizenship, and the federal government can simply deny your application.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#313

Post by hnick »

philmcc wrote: post #279
sorokod wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that was always the case. I have the (perhaps incorrect) impression that over time, pop performers perform someone else's materials more and more.

It wasn't really always the case. If you scroll back, so to speak, a generation or so, the further and further you get, the less necessary it was to win the trifecta of being Attractive, A Dancer, and a Live Performer. Let alone songwriter. There's only so many people that are all 4 and you know all of them by name. You could be VERY plain looking, and unable to dance at all, and chart in in 1965.

Attraction followed from fame, rather than the other way around.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#314

Post by gcanyon »

kbenson wrote: post #232
kmeisthax wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some states actually have laws specifically to prevent this. For example, if you work remote for a company based in NY, PA, CT, DE, AR, or NE; your income is taxable in that state regardless of where you live or work. This is known as a "convenience of the employer" test. In fact, before a certain SCOTUS ruling you couldn't even claim a refund on that tax for your residence state's tax return (and even after, that re…

> Emigrate from the US and you'll still be expected to pay US taxes on foreign income. That's because you still have U.S. citizenship. You can give that up and not be taxed, as I understand it. Also, it looks like there are provisions to give you exclusions on your foreign income,if you have any.[1] That seems sane to me, if you live their the whole year and that location is your tax base, then you can exclude all th…

Expat here, that's not how it works. You have two options when you live/work in another country:

Exclude up to about $100k of your foreign income from US taxes -- after that you still pay US taxes, and at the rate you would have paid if you were paying from the first dollar, meaning if you make $130K, you don't pay US taxes as if you made $30K, you pay the difference between the taxes on $130K and the taxes on $100K.

Deduct whatever you pay in foreign taxes from your US taxes, dollar for dollar.

The US is almost the only country that does this. All of my co-workers from Israel, Ukraine, India, and many other places pay generally no taxes in their home countries.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#316

Post by vmception »

Varriount wrote: post #307
vmception wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've ever driven to a different county to get cheaper gas, or chose a house in a certain municipality to get a lower property tax, or purchased nearby for a lower sales tax, or didn't compute it yourself to send to your state after an online purchase, it's the exact same thing. This has been reinforced by the Supreme Court who could find no distinction between any socioeconomic class optimizing their tax burden,…

> Any state? Any due process outcome? Any percentage? My original comment does not state my opinions on these parameters of the taxation process. I was commenting on how I felt the act of moving to a new state, just to get out of paying taxes in the state you currently live in (and earned that money in), is, in general, immoral. I could have spent several paragraphs going over every possible exception to this viewpoi…

I understand, and I didn't mean to come across like I wanted you to write a dissertation on the topic.

I do find all of these issues related though, and that your comment is only naive because it isn't nuanced enough. Naive wouldn't have been the word I would have led with, as it is your word for yourself willing to be open to another perspective.

I don't find that action immoral because I don't find the state's goal grounded in morality. I find both agents to be amoral, with the individual's amorality being both compliant and reactionary to the state's amoral aggregate legislative process where the legislatures are inattentive and misguided and misled.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#317

Post by musicale »

rgifford wrote: post #175

A friend of mine decided to pursue music production around the same time I started in software engineering. We're both 20 somethings. We swap war stories now and then. I get to hear about how he's working with his mentor to do vocal production on a track getting pitched for Maroon 5, The Chainsmokers, etc. Sometimes the tracks take -- the artist likes them and decides to move forward. Usually they don't and it's a lo…

> We probably can't name those people

Excepting songwriters who are/were also recording artists (The Beatles, Bob Dylan, Leonard Cohen, Prince, Danny Elfman, Elton John, Randy Newman, Sia....)

How about Max Martin? Stock Aitken Waterman? Lieber and Stoller?

There are of course many well-known song composers and lyricists in contemporary musical film and theater, for example Alan Menken, Andrew Lloyd Weber, Stephen Sondheim...

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#318

Post by vmception »

Johnny555 wrote: post #289
vmception wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hope he consulted his financial advisors and if he did, he'd learn that 5 minutes of estate planning makes it ridiculously easy to avoid having any trouble, especially for a bill that large so if you know, you know if you don't, then you might find yourself bombarded by misinformation regarding the music industry, and state taxes on a programming forum

What is the 5 minute fix that would allow someone to escape tax liability for income earned (but not yet received) while working in California?

It would take 5 minutes to synthesize the answer after a much longer time of studying the universe of possibilities.

The financial advisor should be able to provide that.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#319

Post by Johnny555 »

vmception wrote: post #318
Johnny555 wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the 5 minute fix that would allow someone to escape tax liability for income earned (but not yet received) while working in California?

It would take 5 minutes to synthesize the answer after a much longer time of studying the universe of possibilities. The financial advisor should be able to provide that.

What is any 5 minute answer to the problem from any of the possibilities?

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#320

Post by throwawayprc99 »

shard wrote: post #249
kbenson wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Emigrate from the US and you'll still be expected to pay US taxes on foreign income. That's because you still have U.S. citizenship. You can give that up and not be taxed, as I understand it. Also, it looks like there are provisions to give you exclusions on your foreign income,if you have any.[1] That seems sane to me, if you live their the whole year and that location is your tax base, then you can exclude all th…

> it looks like there are provisions to give you exclusions on your foreign income,if you have any The foreign income exclusion is not that high, especially if you are a mid career tech worker ($107,600 for 2020), and you will be double taxed on amounts above the exclusion. But at least you can skip California state taxes if you count as a nonresident.

California taxes worldwide income, and you are still considered a CA resident if you were living there before you left the country.
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