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How can you tell if someone is lying?

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Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#351

Post by 13415 »

simonh wrote: post #347
13415 wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was presenting Andreas Stokke's theory, insofar as I remember it from personal conversation. He is a professor at Uppsala University now and started out his approach with a publication in the Journal of Philosophy. I used to defend your view in private conversations (thanks to a misconception by Augustinus) but have been successfully converted by him and many others. However, you seem to be awfully certain of your…

Interesting rabbit hole. I don't think that's quite Stokke's theory, in particular he doesn't seem to think that the fact you are lying about must be true. That's the falsity condition, which doesn't come from Stokke although some others argue for it. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/lying-definition/ In fact the first parts of both definitions proposed by Stokke are just more formal versions of the definition I ga…

No, I doubt he changed his opinion. You're totally right, I misremembered a personal conversation with him where we discussed this principle. Quite embarrassing!

It appears that I would defend the traditional falsity condition, like others do, too, and that was probably even part of our disagreement. Regarding the "palter", I'm pretty sure he defended that this is not a lie. But after my misrepresentation of his position you definitely shouldn't take my word for it. This is not my line of work anyway, in my opinion you can define these concepts as needed relative to a more encompassing theory or purpose, and it doesn't make much sense insisting on one definition over the other. For instance, I believe in a legal context a lie could be defined very differently than for purposes of a moral theory. Regarding the everyday use, I find the version with the falsity condition I've presented above the most compelling.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#352

Post by dwighttk »

Godel_unicode wrote: post #86
neolog wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're right but I had to think about it and might not have noticed. How did you have that ready to go?

I have a basic understanding of statistics and a basic understanding of logical fallacies, and I deal with this kind of sounds-good-if-you-don't-think-too-hard "insights" all the time.

Could you help me understand what my fallacy was?

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#353

Post by everdrive »

oceanghost wrote: post #350
everdrive wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an extreme case, but not an unusual one. People draw conclusions about people with very little information. They then carry on to believe that their conclusions have real weight, and are based in fact. It's part of why there were always be socially fluid types and con artists.

I know this isn't quite your point, but I can't tell you how many jobs I've not been offered due to missing some trivia question and the interviewer deciding my fate based on that.

I have a lot of anxiety about getting my next job, due to this and other reasons. "But you're well-qualified," my friends will say. Yes, but interviewers are capricious and irrational.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#354

Post by Razengan »

cutemonster wrote: post #342
Razengan wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually not in my favor, especially if it's my word against somebody else's.

I wonder if there's a way to change how one thinks, to not assume that the other person won't trust what one says, and so avoid getting nervous / acting like a culprit I wonder if thinking "I get paid anyway the same each month, what does it matter if they believe me or not" helps (unless one might get fired)

Yes, not giving a fuck is a good solution to many social anxieties.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#355

Post by silexia »

swayvil wrote: post #267
jonathanstrange wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luckily, there is this one reliable method for detecting a lie, checking whether what the suspect says is true.

That means making personal observations and/or consulting various witnesses and authorities. Now convenience and reliability are issues. Also maybe intelligibility.

How to tell if someone is lying: do they have something to gain by lying? Are they a politician? Are they a celebrity? Do they have a history of lying?

The more yes answers to the above, the more likely the person is lying to you.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#356

Post by jamiek88 »

User23 wrote: post #289
Spooky23 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You get better with practice. I had a time where a group of bullies picked up the innovation of using the school administration to harass. So I found myself in the situation of having chats with the principal a few times a week. The optimal strategy was to courteously deny and be silent. It works over half the time. I’d also use my time waiting around to “charm” the support staff by being nice to them and making myse…

My high school was a similar object lesson in how the world actually works. I went from almost getting expelled freshman year for "breaking the library computer"[1] to having the assistant principal accept, but probably not believe, every word I said over underclassmen in any sort of conflict. [1] 10 PRINT "C:\> " 20 READ 30 PRINT "Bad command or file name" 40 GOTO 10

Hey I did the same but added SOUND RND (1000,1,-1) or whatever it was to an entire bank of econet computers.

We were in the class next door that had one computer and we could hear it go off.

Hilarious hijinks until caught/blabbed on. Serious business afterwards. Teachers are scared shitless of computers even now and ‘hacking’ back then... well, I was waiting for MI6 to come get me.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#357

Post by socksy »

aaron_m04 wrote: post #265
strogonoff wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s an interesting take[0] on defensive mechanisms societies have apparently evolved in order to detect a psychopath in their midst in daily life without having to know that person for a long time. [0] https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2016/05/05/dares-costly-signals-a... on dares and costly signals, also discussing The Psychopath Code by late Pieter Hintjens.

What? The zeromq guy died?

Yes. He was diagnosed with lung cancer and chose euthanasia. http://hintjens.com/blog:115 and https://twitter.com/hintjens/status/783254242052206592

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#358

Post by antibuddy »

exo-pla-net wrote: post #266
isoskeles wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m both impressed and dismayed that both of your comments don’t do a single thing to refute mask denialism, specifically whatever his point is on Sweden and Germany. I don’t even believe his comment, but I’m not going to sneer at it and call it mask denialism to shut it down. I feel better about his comment at least attempting to state an argument and evidence in support of it. Anyway, this is a strange tangent for…

He was using the equivalent of a Facebook infographic to "prove" that epidemiologists are wrong. His type believes that scientists are part of a cabal that is lying to the public for nefarious reasons. I won't say that he himself is deranged, but his thought pattern on this issue is. Anyhow, for those who believe in science: https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118

My thought pattern is deranged, because I compare countries with similar state of health care. One where masks are mandatory and one where it isn't. Well, Sweden also has no lockdown, but it pretty much does not matter since the death count in countries should be way higher if most people do not wear masks even indoor.

While you were smearing me you missed to make an argument.

You apparently think that you can believe in science as some kind of religion, but that is not how any of this works. There is not single science answer for these kind of topics, so you can't avoid arguments. Try refute it! I wanna see it.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#359

Post by antibuddy »

varjag wrote: post #248
isoskeles wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m both impressed and dismayed that both of your comments don’t do a single thing to refute mask denialism, specifically whatever his point is on Sweden and Germany. I don’t even believe his comment, but I’m not going to sneer at it and call it mask denialism to shut it down. I feel better about his comment at least attempting to state an argument and evidence in support of it. Anyway, this is a strange tangent for…

Why not compare Sweden and Norway, in many ways a better comparison in culture, population density and geography than Sweden and Germany? …oh. See, I didn't specifically went with countering the OP line of argument because refuting BS takes an order of magnitude more effort than slinging it. It's something anyone who did try to reason with generally unreasonable people so abundant lately can attest to. The laminated…

Effectiveness of masks should be so easy to proof, but just isn't. It should be obvious to anyone when you're so desperate.

Btw Swedes live mostly in the south and in big cities (100k+). You didn't even check that.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#360

Post by edmundsauto »

greggman3 wrote: post #99
edmundsauto wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are practiced at telling lies that their peers believe. Random strangers are better at being skeptical because they are not empathetic about the excuses that are necessary to smooth out an explanation.

Are random strangers better? The stereotype is they just based on looks and mannerisms. Dark skin + sweats = guilty. etc...

No, I think everyone is probably equally terrible at detecting lies. Except for the few people who have actually been tested and shown to be good at it. Any other narrative is just a story - we're all pretty bad at guessing each others intentions.
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