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Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

reuters.com

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Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#211

Post by pseudalopex »

dnautics wrote: post #117
cma wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the end I think courts will say the promised anti-union rollercoaster and yogurt complexes must be built. Fraudulent promises as part of commerce and labor negotiation are excluded from protection under pretty much every interpretation of the 1st amendment out there. https://elonmusk.today/#frozen-yogurt-rollercoasters

IANAL, but if it's not in writing, I believe you have to prove that musk never intended to deliver, and that's gonna be hard to prove. Otherwise you can nail people down to a few hundred prosecutable offenses a year and that is not a recipe for social success when there are sufficient numbers of vindictive jerks around.

The article said it was in an email.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#212

Post by pseudalopex »

opencl wrote: post #188
pjc50 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why are so many people in this thread complaining about "having" to join a union?

The law bans employers from requiring people to be union members before they are hired. In states without right to work laws it is still legal to require employees to join the union after being hired.

No. It's legal to require non members to pay an agency fee for the services the union is required to provide them.[1]

[1] https://fee.org/articles/the-myth-of-compulsory-union-member...

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#213

Post by villgax »

golergka wrote: post #208
minism wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is this from https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/13755366054154936... ?

Honest question: what's wrong with these tweets?

The one denying claims of pee bottles is factually wrong & is actually evident from the operations staff guidelines, which probably the one tweeting doesn't know about.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#214

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

cosmodisk wrote: post #193
darawk wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fine for companies in industries that are reasonably mature. But if you want to start a new company in a dynamic industry, Germany is very much not where you want to be. German GDP per capita is about 45k, as compared to 65k per capita in the US. But that hides a lot. Germany's most productive city is Berlin. Berlin's GDP per capita is....45k. The US on the other hand has cities like San Francisco, with a GDP…

GDP per capita has very little to do with it. The main differences between the US and Europe,when it comes to tech are these: 1) VC sector in Europe is where the US one was 20 years ago. 2) The US, even though it has states, it's still pretty much one market,while Europe,even when talking EU, is a collection of counties with very different cultures, languages,and attitudes towards innovation (e.g. Scandinavia is almo…

>In Germany, there are a lot of so called 'hidden champions' - companies that are small but focus on some higher end, niche products, e.g. oil filters,special purpose ball bearings,etc.

Which is great, but manufacturing those products doesn't generate the kind of cashflow or global influence that US tech companies generate.

Curious how many people here praising these hidden champions has worked for or wishes to work for one. I worked for a couple and it was eye-opening on never doing it again and avoiding them like the plague since they provide no high paying jobs and generate nearly no innovation as they simply survive on having cornered a niche market where neither US nor Chinese companies bother to compete because either the margins or volumes are too low and the decades-long relations with their customers are more valued in those businesses rather than cheaper price or better products.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#215

Post by pseudalopex »

golergka wrote: post #208
minism wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is this from https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/13755366054154936... ?

Honest question: what's wrong with these tweets?

The peeing in bottles thing is true.

Sanders is 1% of half of Congress. Not dictator of Vermont.

They lied about what Warren said.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#216

Post by foepys »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #214
cosmodisk wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GDP per capita has very little to do with it. The main differences between the US and Europe,when it comes to tech are these: 1) VC sector in Europe is where the US one was 20 years ago. 2) The US, even though it has states, it's still pretty much one market,while Europe,even when talking EU, is a collection of counties with very different cultures, languages,and attitudes towards innovation (e.g. Scandinavia is almo…

> In Germany, there are a lot of so called 'hidden champions' - companies that are small but focus on some higher end, niche products, e.g. oil filters,special purpose ball bearings,etc. Which is great, but manufacturing those products doesn't generate the kind of cashflow or global influence that US tech companies generate. Curious how many people here praising these hidden champions has worked for or wishes to work…

Not everybody can rake in billions each year. It's perfectly fine for a company to make a few good quality wares that sell well in a niche. Somebody has to make air filters, lighting, brake pads, ropes, etc., you know?

By your logic everybody should just try to become a tech mega corp and use VC until they set the latest trend or die.

There is a lot of arrogance here on HN.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#218

Post by sofixa »

weyland108 wrote: post #198
astrange wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only in the US setup. Europe uses codetermination and other systems that align them with their employers. Although they tend to get paid less than US tech companies, but so does everyone.

What ? Seems like I am better of without a union if I am getting more pay?. Also where is the conversation around building a better product to add more value in this union debate?

You're getting more pay for a wild variety of reasons ( VC inflation, a lot of things that pay has to compensate for, etc.), nothing to do with unions.

In France, it's mandatory for companies with more than 50 employees to have workers council and that has to be consulted on serious decisions ( changing offices, firing people, layoffs, etc.) and has some limited negotiation power. They negotiate company-wide policies (accord) on behalf of the employees that have to be at least as good as the branch-wide policies ( convention collective) - e.g. all workers in media companies get 20 days extra vacation because that's what the branch collective bargaining agreement says.

Furthermore, oftentimes ( sometimes it's mandatory), there are profit sharing schemes, e.g in my company 1% of the profits is shared among the employees, so your incentives are directly aligned with the company ( it comes to around a salary's worth of a bonus, so it's decent).

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#219

Post by Black101 »

CameronNemo wrote: post #33

dang, can we change the link/title to https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL4N2LN4L0 ? Snippet below: > Tesla CEO Musk's anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board > Tesla Inc Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk’s 2018 tweet threatening employees would lose their stock options if they formed a union was illegal and should be deleted, the U.S. National Labor Relations Board said on Thursday.

Why don't you just make a new post with the article that you like? maybe it will take-off...

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#220

Post by Black101 »

aborsy wrote: post #134

Working in France completely changed my view of unions. I sure hope the horrors I saw won’t happen to Tesla.

There are unions in the US too.. My wife's workplace got unionized... initially the salaries increase a few percents but after that, it didn't appear to make that much of a difference.
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