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High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

scientificamerican.com

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Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#281

Post by toss1 »

chrisco255 wrote: post #218
asidiali wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said it’s not just about you. Some things in communities take cooperation, you know?

You have not addressed any of my points and you're just reiterating a trope without providing any critical reasoning. A person who has contracted Covid and gotten over it is almost assuredly less likely to become contagious again than someone who has had the mRNA therapy but not contracted the actual virus. You have no idea what the long-term risks of RNA therapy are. They are brand new. I might change my mind in 10…

>>A person who has contracted Covid and gotten over it is almost assuredly less likely to become contagious again than someone who has had the mRNA therapy but not contracted the actual virus.

The rates of re-infection (especially with new variants) in COVID-19 patients vs the protection via mRNA vaccines indicate otherwise - where is your data?

>>You have no idea what the long-term risks of RNA therapy are. They are brand new.

Pardon the language, but this is straight-up ignorance or bullshit

mRNA vaccines are NOT new (or they are only new to you because you are ignorant).

The first mRNA published studies were in 1989 [1][2] and in numerous human trials since 2011. Any substantial risks with this technology would have already shown up [5]. mRNA vaccines do not alter your DNA and are very specific, and likely safer than standard vaccines.

You act like simply another random grifter free-riding on the herd immunity maintained by those who are smarter and more ethical. Your clever self-important justifications may hide your deliberate ignorance from yourself, but they don't hide it from others, and your cleverness shows that you know how to do better, but choose not to.

Reconsider; you are not fooling anyone but perhaps yourself

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_vaccine

[2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC297778/

[3] https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-12-mrna-vaccine-safety.h...

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#282

Post by float4 »

bena wrote: post #280
float4 wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What makes you assume that they don't exercise, play an instrument, etc? I clearly speak of people I know: "The people I know", "Those aforementioned people". Also, they often did do one, maybe two of these things, but their life wasn't balanced at all. > why is it on the intelligent to "do less thinking" The other alternative you offer is hoping that the world will change, which it obviously wont. > Why must those…

> Intelligent people are accepted. Understood? Not so much, but they are accepted. Accepted because you conform to a certain societal expectation is not really acceptance. And if they were truly understood > I clearly speak of people I know: "The people I know", "Those aforementioned people". Also, they often did do one, maybe two of these things, but their life wasn't balanced at all. So not just anecdotal data, but…

> Accepted because you conform to a certain societal expectation is not really acceptance.

Social acceptance heavily depends on conformity. Groups don't welcome you if you do not conform to group identity. This is why not every group works for every individual. Sure, sometimes groups should overcome prejudice or stigma, but when you're "difficult to relate to", or "difficult to communicate with" (your examples), then most groups won't be welcoming and I find that quite understandable. Luckily however, some groups (Mensa perhaps) will welcome you. That's usually also why such groups are founded in the first place.

> So not just anecdotal data

This was the entire structure of my first comment, and I never hid that one bit.

> but highly subjective anecdotal data

Those people were way happier after they lived more balanced lives, but happiness is an emotion and thus subjective, that's definitely true.

> Nobody should run too fast, lift too much, be too tall, be too short, be too good at anything. Don't ever risk making the average even the slightest bit uncomfortable.

This is just twisting my argument into an apagoge.

I mainly wrote my comments to offer a different view to the depressed intelligent people, as it often feels like there are quite a few here on HN. I've met very smart and depressed people, and they often felt very sorry for themselves and blamed the world. I tried to convince them that a different approach would help more, and they live way happier lives now. I know that's anecdotal, I know that's subjective. I never hid that, but just tried to offer my take on the issue.

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#283

Post by austincheney »

comp_throw7 wrote: post #271
austincheney wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This does not mean that they are not strongly correlated to IQ. It does not mean they are related or that they aren’t, which only suggests you are missing the point: selection bias. > You could also spend 5 seconds Googling the question and find that that this is not exactly an untrod ground in academic literature. It has been studied exhaustively. The relation between IQ and academic performance is poor according…

We aren't talking about the relation between IQ and academic performance (although that is also clearly established to be significant). We're talking about the relationship between IQ and ACT/SAT scores. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6963451/ https://www.psychologicalscience.org/pdf/ps/Frey.pdf I certainly don't "need" it to be true - things are either true or they aren't, and needing or wanting differ…

> We aren't talking about the relation between IQ and academic performance (although that is also clearly established to be significant). We're talking about the relationship between IQ and ACT/SAT scores.

What is the practical difference?

> I certainly don't "need" it to be true - things are either true or they aren't, and needing or wanting differently doesn't change that.

You are confusing truth for fact. Truth is where you hang your belief.

To be clear this is the basis of the APA's opinion on the matter: http://psych.colorado.edu/~carey/pdfFiles/IQ_Neisser2.pdf and the APA suggests there is only about a 81% alignment between IQ and academic/test performance. A 50% alignment, when there are only 2 items to compare, is random guess.

All opinions that test results correlate with performance are, either directly or indirectly, rooted in Lewis Terman's famous work on IQ which has been disqualified many times. His research wasn't even good and failed in his own assessment over a longitudinal study. Yet, people still follow this garbage.

EDIT: May this serve as some food for thought:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/beautiful-minds/2009...

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#284

Post by HPsquared »

carabiner wrote: post #239
HPsquared wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking the average, that's probably true. It's open for debate though, whether the effect of depression (and other mental disorders) could have just as much influence as IQ when it comes to educational attainment. Both factors can play their own part (though they may be correlated with each other as well)

Have you heard of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis ? The idea that being really smart comes with major pitfalls most of the time is part of it IMO. I love the idea of the tortured genius, and really enjoyed Good Will Hunting. But by every study out there, having high IQ almost always leads to a better life across the board (relationships, physical health, mental health, money). There are except…

Average quality of life is higher, but the variance may well be different also. Survivorship bias. Kind of like how senior leaders tend to have higher incidence of psychopathic traits than the general population, a trait which is also more common among the lowest-status individuals in our society (the prison population).

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#285

Post by TheCoelacanth »

pizza234 wrote: post #278
TheCoelacanth wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course not, but it does provide an easy conversation starter that paves the way for other topics.

Are you referring to the IQ? So, a conversation starter like "Hi! What's your IQ"? I've never heard it, and I don't think anybody, except people with incredibly poor social skills, would use it.

I'm thinking about more typical clubs and interest groups. In a chess club, you can talk about chess without worrying about whether the person is interested in chess. In an underwater basket weaving club, you can talk about underwater basket weaving without worrying about whether the person is interested in underwater basket weaving.

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#286

Post by allenu »

pseudalopex wrote: post #261
allenu wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, as an outsider, I don't see the immediate purpose of the club. I imagine most clubs are about activities or a mission. I used to go social dancing and the purpose of that group of people was to dance, and they would have various events all about dancing or improving your dancing. If you join a social justice or politically minded group, I imagine your purpose is to engage in activities to further your ideals.…

HN is a club for discussing "Anything that good hackers would find interesting." Is it so different?

I feel like it is because it's a group of people in the same field, which is constantly changing. There are topics related to the group that make sense to discuss.

With smart people, I suppose any topic is on the table. It's not specific enough for me.

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#287

Post by allenu »

MaximumYComb wrote: post #267
allenu wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, as an outsider, I don't see the immediate purpose of the club. I imagine most clubs are about activities or a mission. I used to go social dancing and the purpose of that group of people was to dance, and they would have various events all about dancing or improving your dancing. If you join a social justice or politically minded group, I imagine your purpose is to engage in activities to further your ideals.…

I think you're only looking at "smart people" as people who want to share how smart they are. You seem to be ignoring the social isolation that can come with it. Your interests might no be similar to those around you, if you're a child you might be able to meet others who are different in the same way, etc. I very rarely discuss IQ since so many people are hostile to it. A high IQ makes you different. Sometimes it's…

I suppose so. It's probably more akin to a club for tall people, or a club for twins. There are things specific to who you are in those cases that outsiders wouldn't "get" and I can see the value in meeting up with those folks to feel a sense of belonging.

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#288

Post by [deleted] »

rossdavidh wrote: post #144
justbored123 wrote: post #134

I some times wonder if the IQ of the people that conducts these studies is below average. 30 point of IQ of difference is with the average, an IQ of 70 or less is the IQ of a clinically retarded person. So, if you have 132 IQ, the average person is literally retarded compared to you. If you live in a world surrounded by retards you are going to be depressed and had all sorts of mental issues and a hard time to adapt,…

1) I don't think that the term "retard" is a constructive way to refer to people of IQ 70 or lower (or anyone, really). 2) Everyone I have ever met is, in some field or other, and in some kind of thinking, really dumb. Some people are low intelligence in everything, but I've never met anyone who was smart at every kind of thinking. 3) When dealing with, say, people who know way less about computer programming than I…

[deleted]

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#289

Post by O_H_E »

bena wrote: post #256
O_H_E wrote: post #119

Semi tangent: I would really recommend watching "Is Success Luck or Hard Work?" By Veritasium https://youtu.be/3LopI4YeC4I

Is the answer "yes"? Because I often feel that it's a combination of both. You need luck to get certain opportunities, but fully taking advantage of them or maintaining them requires putting in the work.

I am not sure if that is a tongue in cheek "yes", but yeah IIRC his answer (after some precursory modeling/scripting) was that yes it's both.

Something along the lines of: There is so many variables and so many people, so the person who is gonna be the next Gates/Jobs/Musk will have to hit the jackpot all of them in order to get there.

Nb. it has been some time since I watched that video, don't quote Derek on my tongue.

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#290

Post by pseudalopex »

allenu wrote: post #286
pseudalopex wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN is a club for discussing "Anything that good hackers would find interesting." Is it so different?

I feel like it is because it's a group of people in the same field, which is constantly changing. There are topics related to the group that make sense to discuss. With smart people, I suppose any topic is on the table. It's not specific enough for me.

It seems like most commenters are in software engineering or related jobs. But it doesn't appeal to lots of people in those fields. There are biologists and truck drivers too. And lots of people have pointed out most companies are tech companies now.

Most topics here might interest people for professional reasons. But they include things like "High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders" too. People love to debate politics. And "Is the Ship Still Stuck?"[1] is the top article right now.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26585282

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