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Intel chief Pat Gelsinger: Too many chips made in Asia

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Re: Intel chief Pat Gelsinger: Too many chips made in Asia

#211

Post by FooBarWidget »

vimy wrote: post #143
Taniwha wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ASML only makes a few machines every year, you can't just buy them off the shelf IMHO banning sales of ASML's product to China is chest thumping protectionist nonsense - if you're worried about the rise of China's military then you should be tangling their economy up more with that of the West so that they have more reasons not to go to war rather than driving them to be self sufficient.

The next war will be fought with AI. It's essential the West stays ahead in chip technology, one of the few advantages we still have. It could be the difference between winning or losing a war with China. > tangling their economy up more with that of the West so that they have more reasons not to go to war This strategy failed, China wasn't interested in becoming like the West. We're in a new cold war, it's time peop…

What does 'becoming like the west' have to do with economic cooperation and peace? Are you saying the western model is the only possible valid and morally acceptable model for the entire world?

Re: Intel chief Pat Gelsinger: Too many chips made in Asia

#212

Post by samus »

ironmagma wrote: post #165
outworlder wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've just learned that the ESP32 is manufactured on a TSMC 40mm process. That's essentially caveman tech. All those foundries based on old processes should be churning out at least equivalent (if not more capable) chips. Heck, forget ESP32, is there a ESP8266 equivalent that's entirely made in the USA? Would love to use that instead - for many reasons.

Hard for me to read the level of hyperbole here, but does that mean it’s something that could conceivably be manufactured in a home?

There are some projects where people try to etch silicon in their garage, but the node they are targetting is from last century. Anything newer and you need toxic and corrosive chemicals, and increasingly exotic equipment. The yield isn't great either.

Re: Intel chief Pat Gelsinger: Too many chips made in Asia

#213

Post by mjevans »

excalibur wrote: post #76

TSMC is far too important to far too many parties. We're getting dangerously close to a direct US/China war for Taiwan. That wouldn't be good for anybody. Both sides will claim it's about something else, but really it's all about the chips.

My view (opinion):

Both sides will arm for war, mostly as a deturant and bargaining point.

Espionage at a corporate and nation state level will be used to erode the value of the problem; probably by every advanced nation state.

The other 21st century and beyond area of competition will be energy tech (of all sorts), because of that old science fiction meme of the only two things an advanced species need being space and energy.

Re: Intel chief Pat Gelsinger: Too many chips made in Asia

#214

Post by namibj »

mjevans wrote: post #186
CamperBob2 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interaction with the mask material, I imagine. With hard x-rays, most of the photons generated will just sail right through, not interacting at all, or (worse) ionize the material being exposed. Personally, I'm surprised that there aren't ways to generate this energy by nonlinear mixing of light from two lasers that are separated by the desired frequency.

Lasers are an Electro-Magnetic emission of which the output is a synchronized at a specific and regular frequency. If you have two lasers at about 700nm and 1000nm, and they 'start' at a synchronized point, then 7mm (7000nm) of emission later they'd have a repeat of the cycle begin again. During that cycle the interference pattern would probably have an interesting shape, but I very much doubt it'd be useful for semi…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interference_lithography exists, but it only uses a single laser with beam splitters, and typically for creating large diffraction gratings and such.

Re: Intel chief Pat Gelsinger: Too many chips made in Asia

#215

Post by JohnJamesRambo »

Nokinside wrote: post #54

As he says here, the decision not to take risk and jump to EUV with TSMC and Samsung was the mistake that started this downfall and it snowballed. The decision happened somewhere in the pathfinding stage into 10nm. When Gerald Marcyk was running Intel components research back in the 2001 Intel was already considering using EUV lithography for the 45nm technology node that would come out 2007. It turned out that the s…

I would have been more wowed by the $120 million if I didn’t know B2 bombers cost $2 billion each. I wonder how much more safe and secure we would be with lots of Twinscans 3400B’s and a few less B2’s?

Re: Intel chief Pat Gelsinger: Too many chips made in Asia

#216

Post by inglor_cz »

Taniwha wrote: post #121
rakah wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EUV is hard, but isn't part of the reason why only ASML can make those machines because of the CRADA they have with DOE as a member of the EUV LLC? I believe this agreement was why ASML wasn't allowed to sell their solution to China recently. I bet Intel will have no trouble buying EUV to bring in-house - especially if that serves US strategic interests.

ASML only makes a few machines every year, you can't just buy them off the shelf IMHO banning sales of ASML's product to China is chest thumping protectionist nonsense - if you're worried about the rise of China's military then you should be tangling their economy up more with that of the West so that they have more reasons not to go to war rather than driving them to be self sufficient.

Prior to WWI, European economies were pretty deeply entangled and people even did not have to have passports to cross borders. Only Russia and Turkey required passports from travellers.

Austria-Hungary even produced steel and guns for their future enemy, the Royal Navy...

Re: Intel chief Pat Gelsinger: Too many chips made in Asia

#217

Post by imtringued »

vkou wrote: post #93
tibbydudeza wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes the govt needs to intervene and provide resources when you want to get things done properly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_Press_Program

Great, and it can do that in exchange for equity.

I never understood the existence of bailout programs without equity. If the banks, car and semiconductor companies mess up and you keep them alive then you deserve to have a say in their business and owning their shares is the easiest way to achieve that control.

Re: Intel chief Pat Gelsinger: Too many chips made in Asia

#218

Post by tester34 »

yongjik wrote: post #88

> "Having 80% of all supply in Asia simply isn't a palatable manner for the world to have its view of the most critical technology," Mr Gelsinger said. Eh, the whole set of FAANG plus Intel itself is based on American West Coast, and this guy's take is that so many chips being made in East Asia is not "palatable" for the world? There's nothing wrong with saying "That's a large pie they're eating and we want a bigger…

So Asia creates bleeding edge technology and innovation meanwhile US just spies by it's funny social media sites?

how tables have turned

Re: Intel chief Pat Gelsinger: Too many chips made in Asia

#219

Post by fermienrico »

j_walter wrote: post #135

American fabs have focused on too many feel good measures to competitively compete with the Asian fabs. The new TSMC Arizona HR director came from Intel and one of the first questions out of his mouth was about TSMC's commitment to diversity. TSMC doesn't have a commitment to diversity...it has a commitment to hire the best and brightest to bring value to their end customers. Pure and simple that is how you succeed.

By all means, hire every diverse candidate you can if they’re the best and the brightest. Diversity and inclusion is a sure fire way to hire mediocre people. Every culture and every race has some brilliant folks. Hire them.

Re: Intel chief Pat Gelsinger: Too many chips made in Asia

#220

Post by fermienrico »

Zevis wrote: post #193
formerly_proven wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I (we... us Europeans) often make fun of the US but when shit hits the fan the US often seems to be quite a bit better at actually getting stuff done .

I'd say that's one of the reasons why Europeans are so unhappy with the US. I know I am. They have so much potential to get shit done, but they squander all of that potential.

Come over and join us. We need some help with social policies of Europe and getting rid of the stupid ass imperial measurement system.
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